Prince George's County (Bowie, Greenbelt, Laurel: unemployment rate, middle school, university)

[truthhurts]

Well, since i'm not sure who's actually adressing who. I know that Fist, RFMD, Iscalder, and Jade have all addressed issues i've raised i'll just make a blanket address and clarify my views.

To RFMD, i'll qoute a popular song lyric from a mid 90's rap group "We are not against rap we are not against rappers, but we are against those thugs!" I'm not against any form of musical expression as long as it has some sort of redeeming qualities. Now, for children I do not feel that rap or other forms of adult music is age appropriate to listen to.

I love all kinds of music, but in relation to me as a black person I do not celebrate those that have made or reap significant financial gain destroying other blacks or attempting to constantly portray blacks in a negative light. Sure, not all rap music is disgusting and vile or full of cruss words. However, I hate the image that somehow Jay'z or 50 Cent should be represntative of young black success and should be held up as community hero's. These young men are nothing more than lucky. Sure there's an element of being savvy enough to seize the opportunity, but to celebrate two black men that 1. Didn't graduate high-school 2. Can barely speak english grammatically correctly 3. Sold drugs and destroyed their own communities at the expense of other poor blacks as if they are the only model by which young inner city blacks can achieve success is down right dishonest and destructive.

What needs to be promoted are people like Dr. Ben Carson blacks who may have grown up poor, but did what they were supposed to 1.Graduated High School 2. Went on to College 3. Worked in a chosen profession. 4. Got Married 5. Did not have children out of wedlock (and if did at least had the deceny to care for them). The entertainment route is nto a viable option for the masses, so those that continue to promote it as such are doing a huge disservice to this community. Education is a viable option for the masses to attain success. Not everyone is going to be a millionaire, but being comfortable and putting food on your table is success enough. Once you get there and have saved the means to start your own business etc then you can take the neccessary steps to go for Millions upon Millions. You have an advantage and a better opportunity of success.

I agree with you 100% the intial start of hip-hop was extremely positive until the Corporate advent and celebration of "Gangster Rap," "Thug Culture" and now the glorification of senseless spending, poor investments (bling), and a host of other horrible images that are displayed in a lot of these videos.

My biggest problem with hip-hop as stated earlier is that entertainment is simply not a viable means for the masses to achieve success and I have a huge problme with equating hip-hop to universal black culture. The media, rappers, blacks, whites, etc constantly do this and its insulting to blacks history in this country. To equate everything we have done in this country over the last 300 years with some entertainment phenomenon of the last 20 years. It's down right silly and insulting.

However, like Iscalder pointed out if you go to any rap concert the majority of people there are overwhelmingly white and the majority of people that purchase rap are overwhelmingly white. But this is neither here nor there and does not get to the root of the problem, which is history revisionist that include a lot of rappers and entertainment types writing in rap as some defacto cultural assignment to maintain your true identity within the community. I'm not against "Rap" *****' but I am against those "thugs." I find it completely insulting that they constantly attempt to align themselves with all the great accomplishments of this culture over the last 300 years.

Next Topic

Fish & Jaded, why is it that a young black male that states he would prefer to see strong black family structures, more emphasis on early adoption of education for poorer blacks, more parent involvement for poorer blacks, less complaining about racism, less government intervention in the lives of the poor, more working toward successful goals, less emphasis on defining one's level of blackness through non-postive means (i.e wearing of baggy clothes and certain speech patterns, that leave one at a server disadvantage when entering the work world etc), more focus on choosing the right kinds of role-models (Colin Powell vs Jay-Z is there really any competition for who should be selected the right role model?) for the right reasons, more emphasis on the character and intergrity of the person, more emphasis on self relience, more emphasis on utilizing your ability to make solid choices, and a host of other positive things somehow makes me a self hating black person?

I'm confused? Please help explain. The fact, that I strongly believe, because of my own experiences that blacks can do a lot better than they are currently doing is somehow self hating? Holding people accountable for thier choices and actions in life is self hating? Wanting people to position themselves in life to make it to the next level somehow indicates I hate the color of my skin? I'm very troubled by those assertions, but shocking that they would come from a liberal agenda in reference to a conservative black male. I'm honestly saddend that you choose to utilize such tactics rather than tackle many of my arguments strictly based upon merit.

I guess if i was on a street corner selling drugs, had baggy pants, and a baseball cap and constantly made bad choices, but had the saftey net of liberal whites and mis-lead blacks supporting this bad behavoir as culturally acceptable i'd be fine right, because i'm out "keeping it real" and since i'm buying into a culture of failure i could not be consider a race traitor right?

[jessy0780]

Originally Posted by ToughLuv

The amount of racism and ignorance in this thread is disturbing and disgusting. But that's what you usually get when you have a bunch of White people talking about PG County, not suprisingly.

Talk about racist.

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

Well, since i'm not sure who's actually adressing who. I know that Fist, RFMD, Iscalder, and Jade have all addressed issues i've raised i'll just make a blanket address and clarify my views.

To RFMD, i'll qoute a popular song lyric from a mid 90's rap group "We are not against rap we are not against rappers, but we are against those thugs!" I'm not against any form of musical expression as long as it has some sort of redeeming qualities. Now, for children I do not feel that rap or other forms of adult music is age appropriate to listen to.

I love all kinds of music, but in relation to me as a black person I do not celebrate those that have made or reap significant financial gain destroying other blacks or attempting to constantly portray blacks in a negative light. Sure, not all rap music is disgusting and vile or full of cruss words. However, I hate the image that somehow Jay'z or 50 Cent should be represntative of young black success and should be held up as community hero's. These young men are nothing more than lucky. Sure there's an element of being savvy enough to seize the opportunity, but to celebrate two black men that 1. Didn't graduate high-school 2. Can barely speak english grammatically correctly 3. Sold drugs and destroyed their own communities at the expense of other poor blacks as if they are the only model by which young inner city blacks can achieve success is down right dishonest and destructive.

What needs to be promoted are people like Dr. Ben Carson blacks who may have grown up poor, but did what they were supposed to 1.Graduated High School 2. Went on to College 3. Worked in a chosen profession. 4. Got Married 5. Did not have children out of wedlock (and if did at least had the deceny to care for them). The entertainment route is nto a viable option for the masses, so those that continue to promote it as such are doing a huge disservice to this community. Education is a viable option for the masses to attain success. Not everyone is going to be a millionaire, but being comfortable and putting food on your table is success enough. Once you get there and have saved the means to start your own business etc then you can take the neccessary steps to go for Millions upon Millions. You have an advantage and a better opportunity of success.

I agree with you 100% the intial start of hip-hop was extremely positive until the Corporate advent and celebration of "Gangster Rap," "Thug Culture" and now the glorification of senseless spending, poor investments (bling), and a host of other horrible images that are displayed in a lot of these videos.

My biggest problem with hip-hop as stated earlier is that entertainment is simply not a viable means for the masses to achieve success and I have a huge problme with equating hip-hop to universal black culture. The media, rappers, blacks, whites, etc constantly do this and its insulting to blacks history in this country. To equate everything we have done in this country over the last 300 years with some entertainment phenomenon of the last 20 years. It's down right silly and insulting.

However, like Iscalder pointed out if you go to any rap concert the majority of people there are overwhelmingly white and the majority of people that purchase rap are overwhelmingly white. But this is neither here nor there and does not get to the root of the problem, which is history revisionist that include a lot of rappers and entertainment types writing in rap as some defacto cultural assignment to maintain your true identity within the community. I'm not against "Rap" *****' but I am against those "thugs." I find it completely insulting that they constantly attempt to align themselves with all the great accomplishments of this culture over the last 300 years.

Next Topic

Fish & Jaded, why is it that a young black male that states he would prefer to see strong black family structures, more emphasis on early adoption of education for poorer blacks, more parent involvement for poorer blacks, less complaining about racism, less government intervention in the lives of the poor, more working toward successful goals, less emphasis on defining one's level of blackness through non-postive means (i.e wearing of baggy clothes and certain speech patterns, that leave one at a server disadvantage when entering the work world etc), more focus on choosing the right kinds of role-models (Colin Powell vs Jay-Z is there really any competition for who should be selected the right role model?) for the right reasons, more emphasis on the character and intergrity of the person, more emphasis on self relience, more emphasis on utilizing your ability to make solid choices, and a host of other positive things somehow makes me a self hating black person?

I'm confused? Please help explain. The fact, that I strongly believe, because of my own experiences that blacks can do a lot better than they are currently doing is somehow self hating? Holding people accountable for thier choices and actions in life is self hating? Wanting people to position themselves in life to make it to the next level somehow indicates I hate the color of my skin? I'm very troubled by those assertions, but shocking that they would come from a liberal agenda in reference to a conservative black male. I'm honestly saddend that you choose to utilize such tactics rather than tackle many of my arguments strictly based upon merit.

I guess if i was on a street corner selling drugs, had baggy pants, and a baseball cap and constantly made bad choices, but had the saftey net of liberal whites and mis-lead blacks supporting this bad behavoir as culturally acceptable i'd be fine right, because i'm out "keeping it real" and since i'm buying into a culture of failure i could not be consider a race traitor right?

Just conjectureTruth but maybe the issue is not the valididity of what you say but the fact that you are saying it in a public forum. For some the issue maybe you are saying it in front of the man. I don't know because I see so much agreement between posters of different races.

[foguno]

have you looked into woodbridge VA?

[ToughLuv]

Originally Posted by jessy0780

Talk about racist.

Racist?, no. Truth?,yes.

[lscalder]

I agree with Toughluv i do not think what he post is racist at all.

[Y-Man]

You could try the Croom Road area (off of 301). That's pretty rural, or southern Anne Arundel County (south of Annapolis) which is close to PG, but is still nice (Deale, Tracey's Landing, Harwood, etc.).

Good luck.

[Jaded]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

I love all kinds of music, but in relation to me as a black person I do not celebrate those that have made or reap significant financial gain destroying other blacks or attempting to constantly portray blacks in a negative light. Sure, not all rap music is disgusting and vile or full of cruss words. However, I hate the image that somehow Jay'z or 50 Cent should be represntative of young black success and should be held up as community hero's. These young men are nothing more than lucky. Sure there's an element of being savvy enough to seize the opportunity, but to celebrate two black men that 1. Didn't graduate high-school 2. Can barely speak english grammatically correctly 3. Sold drugs and destroyed their own communities at the expense of other poor blacks as if they are the only model by which young inner city blacks can achieve success is down right dishonest and destructive.


What needs to be promoted are people like Dr. Ben Carson blacks who may have grown up poor, but did what they were supposed to 1.Graduated High School 2. Went on to College 3. Worked in a chosen profession. 4. Got Married 5. Did not have children out of wedlock (and if did at least had the deceny to care for them). The entertainment route is nto a viable option for the masses, so those that continue to promote it as such are doing a huge disservice to this community. Education is a viable option for the masses to attain success. Not everyone is going to be a millionaire, but being comfortable and putting food on your table is success enough. Once you get there and have saved the means to start your own business etc then you can take the neccessary steps to go for Millions upon Millions. You have an advantage and a better opportunity of success.

Next Topic

Fish & Jaded, why is it that a young black male that states he would prefer to see strong black family structures, more emphasis on early adoption of education for poorer blacks, more parent involvement for poorer blacks, less complaining about racism, less government intervention in the lives of the poor, more working toward successful goals, less emphasis on defining one's level of blackness through non-postive means (i.e wearing of baggy clothes and certain speech patterns, that leave one at a server disadvantage when entering the work world etc), more focus on choosing the right kinds of role-models (Colin Powell vs Jay-Z is there really any competition for who should be selected the right role model?) for the right reasons, more emphasis on the character and intergrity of the person, more emphasis on self relience, more emphasis on utilizing your ability to make solid choices, and a host of other positive things somehow makes me a self hating black person?

I'm confused? Please help explain. The fact, that I strongly believe, because of my own experiences that blacks can do a lot better than they are currently doing is somehow self hating? Holding people accountable for thier choices and actions in life is self hating? Wanting people to position themselves in life to make it to the next level somehow indicates I hate the color of my skin? I'm very troubled by those assertions, but shocking that they would come from a liberal agenda in reference to a conservative black male. I'm honestly saddend that you choose to utilize such tactics rather than tackle many of my arguments strictly based upon merit.

I guess if i was on a street corner selling drugs, had baggy pants, and a baseball cap and constantly made bad choices, but had the saftey net of liberal whites and mis-lead blacks supporting this bad behavoir as culturally acceptable i'd be fine right, because i'm out "keeping it real" and since i'm buying into a culture of failure i could not be consider a race traitor right?

First, you cannot criticize their grammar when yours isn't much better: The correct usage of grammar for the words in bold: English correctly -or- English grammatically correct. You don't use two adverbs next to each other. One eliminates the need for the other. Yes, English is capitalized, it is a proper noun.

Second, who said they should be community heros? By the way, this is another grammar mistake...you used possesive when you stated "hero's", there is no possession...it should have been written as a plural word.

Third, the fact that they have risen above their previous stations in life, and have become successful in this country, does say something about their financial intelligence. These so-called "thugs" understand capitalism. The same way J.Paul Getty, Henry Ford, Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc. created their wealth, real wealth, was not by being upstanding citizens...not a first. It wasn't until after they made their wealth did these men begin to give it away. Why? Because they wanted their names to live on forever. They want and wanted to be infamous. Ford invented the assembly line which essentially was the birth to the modern day sweat shop! The man was hailed for it...still is. Do you not study him in graduate school? Jay-Z and 50 cent may not be beacons or pillars of society, but they do give, the right way, anonymously. When they die, you will be contributing to their families wealth/trusts in more ways than you realize. They don't just "sell" cds, they own their own companies, they invest their money with solid, large, corporations. They understand capitalism. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Question: Do you feel the same about Robert "Bob" Johnson as you do Jay-Z and 50 cent? He made millions off of "blacks" by promoting the exploitation of blacks on his network! Then, he goes on national television and belittles another AA while supporting a non-AA candidate. Should he be one's role model?

Ben Carson is promoted...in his field. He is very well known and respected worldwide. He and his wife have a foundation and give scholarships to college bound students. What's your point? Carson is actively trying to be the change he seeks in society. He is putting his time and money where he feels it is needed. Got married??? Are you serious? Who says one has to be married in order to be successful?

Education is not a viable option for the masses. If being comfortable and putting food on your table is success enough, then why do you care how entertainers do it? You contradict yourself here.

STOP TRYING TO BE BIG BROTHER. You are very naive.

My biggest problem with hip-hop as stated earlier is that entertainment is simply not a viable means for the masses to achieve success and I have a huge problme with equating hip-hop to universal black culture. The media, rappers, blacks, whites, etc constantly do this and its insulting to blacks history in this country. To equate everything we have done in this country over the last 300 years with some entertainment phenomenon of the last 20 years. It's down right silly and insulting.

Who does this mean??? I have never heard or seen the media equate any historical black figure to modern day entertainers. Ever. If anything, I hear the more mature entertainers thank their ancestors and predecessors for making it possible for them to even compete and thrive when there was a time when they would have never gotten the chance. Truth: it is because of King, DuBois, Malcolm/Shabazz, Parks, etc. that these entertainers you "hate" have been so successul. I'm happy that when I turn on the television, I see faces of all cultures, representing America. And I am very mindful, that this is the direct result of my ancestors who faught for freedom for all, even if you want to be an entertainer. How is this insulting?

I'm not against "Rap" *****' but I am against those "thugs." I find it completely insulting that they constantly attempt to align themselves with all the great accomplishments of this culture over the last 300 years.

Again, when does this happen?? Please reference your assertion. These "thugs" as you judge them, have never aligned themselves with "all the great accomplishments of this culture..." (Side note: It's been more than 300 years) They are however, an accomplishment in and of themselves. Like it or not.

Answering your "next topic."

Perhaps you are confused because you contradict yourself often. You single out "poorer blacks" as if they have a disease that needs curing. They don't. They are poor. Nothing else. Some have goals, others don't. Some spoiled rich kids have no goals, but you'd never know it because they live off of their Trust Funds...oops, wait a minute...did I just see Brittney, and Lindsey? Why don't you point the likes of these out? Why not attack Paris Hilton?

I am not supporting nor damning any behavior. What I am saying to you is that you should not point the finger at poor blacks, rappers, entertainers, etc., simply because they do not fit your standard. Truth, what have you done in the past twenty years to uplift your culture?

I am proud to be AA. While it is obvious that you were brought up to believe that you are your brother's keeper, I was not. Allow me to explain. I do not feel threatened by nor embarrassed by other AAs. People are individuals. Judge them accordingly and STOP generalizing and stereotyping. This is racism, whether you agree or not. Didn't the KKK believe what they were doing was right?

AAs are doing much better than you think...see "What Black Men Think" by Janks Morton.

[Jaded]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

more focus on choosing the right kinds of role-models (Colin Powell vs Jay-Z is there really any competition for who should be selected the right role model?) for the right reasons, more emphasis on the character and intergrity of the person, more emphasis on self relience, more emphasis on utilizing your ability to make solid choices, and a host of other positive things somehow makes me a self hating black person?

Who should be selected as the right role model?? They are both role models to whomever chooses them to be so. You can't force people to choose the role model of YOUR choice...that's absurd. We choose role models that inspire us to be what WE want to be. So, some may choose Colin Powell, some may choose Jay-Z. How do you know the ones who choose Jay-Z are not aspiring to be successful record label owners? What is wrong with wanting to own a record label? A clothing line? Restaurants, etc? They may not aspire to be the "rapper" Jay-Z, but the businessman Jay-Z. What would Colin Powell know about owning a record label? On the contrary, if a young man wanted to be a General in the US Army, the US Secretary of State, then Colin Powell may be his choice for a role model. What would Jay-Z know about being a General in the Army?

[truthhurts]

quote=Jaded First, you cannot criticize their grammar when yours isn't much better: The correct usage of grammar for the words in bold: English correctly -or- English grammatically correct. You don't use two adverbs next to each other. One eliminates the need for the other. Yes, English is capitalized, it is a proper noun.

Let's get this out of the way first. To attack an argument on the basis of spelling or slight grammtical errors just levels out the weakness of your initial argument. I could go through your third paragraph and cite plenty of writing and grammatically non correct english faux pas, but that is not the point of this exercise. Furthermore, we were not discussing how well these young men write i was specifically discussing how poor their grammer is in relation to how they speak when interviewed on tv, so you first point is again not conducive nor germane to this argument and further solidifies a weak start to your position and overall argument. (Stick with the issue at hand)

Second, who said they should be community heros? By the way, this is another grammar mistake...you used possesive when you stated "hero's", there is no possession...it should have been written as a plural word.

Clearly the consensus in those community feels they should be held up as heros of hero's and they are men among mice. If this was not the case i'd highly doubt you'd see inner city ghetto youth holding these weak representations of success up on a pedistole. While there's nothing inheriently wrong with having mutiple role models clearly there are better choices, that the masses of poorer black kids could decide to model themselves after. (again your second point on correcting my writing is not german to the argument)



Third, the fact that they have risen above their previous stations in life, and have become successful in this country, does say something about their financial intelligence. These so-called "thugs" understand capitalism. The same way J.Paul Getty, Henry Ford, Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc. created their wealth, real wealth, was not by being upstanding citizens...not a first. It wasn't until after they made their wealth did these men begin to give it away. Why? Because they wanted their names to live on forever. They want and wanted to be infamous. Ford invented the assembly line which essentially was the birth to the modern day sweat shop! The man was hailed for it...still is. Do you not study him in graduate school? Jay-Z and 50 cent may not be beacons or pillars of society, but they do give, the right way, anonymously. When they die, you will be contributing to their families wealth/trusts in more ways than you realize. They don't just "sell" cds, they own their own companies, they invest their money with solid, large, corporations. They understand capitalism. Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Not sure how to tackle this, but i'll point out what's not germane to my argument. Bill Gates, Henry Ford, Andrew Carnegie, J.Paul Getty etc are not very valid arguments in comparison to Jay-Z or 50 Cent. When these two men create companies that employee 100's of thousands of people and have a direct impact on our society in a positive way then they may be due this sort of credit. However, i currently have yet to hear of the Jay-Z Library in Brooklyn or the 50 Cent Musuem of Black History. Nor have I heard of the Jay-Z Private School for Inner City Youth nor the 50 Cent Foundation for Underprivilidged Children. Point here is to say, they may very well give to charitable organizations, but to compare them to the people you listed is not germane to the argument, because they have yet to make that big of an impact on American society let alone black society.

Now what we do argree on is there ability to understand the simplistic nature of supply and demand. However, i'll tackle the bigger issue in relation to capitalism in your next question.

Question: Do you feel the same about Robert "Bob" Johnson as you do Jay-Z and 50 cent? He made millions off of "blacks" by promoting the exploitation of blacks on his network! Then, he goes on national television and belittles another AA while supporting a non-AA candidate. Should he be one's role model?

• I figured this weakly formed argument about Bob Johnson would come up. In relation to capitalism you're right should he have a moral obligation not to make money on destructive black images and culture? Well, considering the difference between Bob Johnson, Jay-Z and 50 Cent are huge in comparison. Bob Johnson for starters employed large numbers of blacks, took a majority black owned company public, created extreme wealth for black people, and successfully sold a black owned company for more than 2.5 billion dollars.
• In reference to Bob Johnson, I don't see much difference between he and Rupert Murdoch or Sumner Redstone. These are media titans, that control vast portions of entertainment properties. Bob, did sell disgusting images of blacks, but no more so than both Murdoch or Redstone. However, to that extent all these guys differ from Jay-Z and 50 Cent in respect to how they are diversified in the images they depicted of blacks. Bob, also had postive programs on BET like the nightly news (that highlighted black accomplishments and Teen Summit, which highlighted black teen accomplishments to name a few), so while 50 and Jay-Z tend to promote only the bad black images Bob, took it upon himself to promote both.
• Where does capitalism come in? Well, clearly distructive images of blacks present a far higher margin then positive images, so the fact that 50 and Jay-Z understand this means little to nothing to me. What would impress me is if they used their star power and ownership within these corporations to say Hey let's change the game and promote positive images. Why not bring hip-hop back to its original origins as a positive outlet of musical harmony questioning and asking people to make the best of their lot in life? Why continue to foster images of "thug culture" and "irresponsible invesments?"

Education is not a viable option for the masses. If being comfortable and putting food on your table is success enough, then why do you care how entertainers do it? You contradict yourself here.

STOP TRYING TO BE BIG BROTHER. You are very naive.

• Honestly, you seem to be the one that is naive and in self denail of any sorts. It is funny you should support Fish, because in general he's right what's large amounts of money worth in the hands of these uneducated hip-hop impersarios if all they do is friviously spend it on bling, cars, and other weak investments. It is not as if the money they make off the community is coming back in the forms of large employment opportunities, educational advacement, or new large forms of black wealth creation(none of these are public companies with majority black shareholders like BET was), for the people of their communities. Answer that question since i'm so naive?

Who does this mean??? I have never heard or seen the media equate any historical black figure to modern day entertainers. Ever. If anything, I hear the more mature entertainers thank their ancestors and predecessors for making it possible for them to even compete and thrive when there was a time when they would have never gotten the chance. Truth: it is because of King, DuBois, Malcolm/Shabazz, Parks, etc. that these entertainers you "hate" have been so successul. I'm happy that when I turn on the television, I see faces of all cultures, representing America. And I am very mindful, that this is the direct result of my ancestors who faught for freedom for all, even if you want to be an entertainer. How is this insulting?

• No, it is not just a credit to King (and the civil rights movement). News flash blacks were not just sitting around until 1964 twiddling their thumbs, so stop with the attritubting all great progress within black cutlure to the "Civil Rights Movement." Blacks have been a mainstay in modern American music long before some blacks started marching in the street, so stop attempting to discredit the accomplishments of Louie Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, and many of the jazz greats that were household names in both black and white homes long before the civil rights era. Sure, that opened a bigger gateway, which allowed a lot of the trashier acts to follow (Gangster Rap and the flourishing of this "Thug Culture.") You could have turned on the Television in 1958 to American Bandstand and saw black music faces.
• Sure it is nice to see diversity on the 100 plus channels the American public has access to, but watching young males parade around in oversized jeans and tee-shirts, half naked girls shacking their backsides, and "thug culture" displayed is in no way a form of progress. I do not happily turn my tv channel to such crap and say to myself, "Wow we have finally made it and look how well we represent ourselves. Bootie Shacking, Bling, and oversized tee-shirts and pants. I'm so proud!" NOT!
• While I do not think there should be a monopoly on only positive black images there seems to be a monopoly on negative one's, so i'd prefer to see a balance, that leans more toward the positive. I'd love to turn my tv on and see more diversity in the professional areas of wall-street, technology, and the sciences. I'm only happy when I turn my TV and i see a well dressed, well spoken, black professional on. Now, that's something to be proud of when viewing diversity on your tv not some "thug culture" bad grammer inner city thug talking about how he sold drugs, got a record deal, and now he's the CEO of the company. I'm sorry, but selling poor inner city black youth the idea, that this is your ticket to success is disgraceful and will only leave them behind in the end.
• Here are some Jay-Z lyrics I grabbed off the Net. In the first he stanza he compares his selling other black people drugs to Malcome X's famous line "By any means Neccesary." In the next stanza of lyrics he compares his selling crack rocks to already being the CEO of the record label he owns ROC. Yes, that's the message we want youth to bring home, "Sell Rocks kill other blacks you could end up the CEO of your own music company, Jigga did it, so can you!" Reminds of the Chris Rock comedy special about the DC Mayor on Crack! (casue that is truly what that message is pure comedy and holds no substance in reality)
• All i'm saying is raise the standards. I could careless what Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears do, because they're not black and just because they're all crazy, poor, and stupid does not mean black people should go out and do it, because you know what most white people do not act like them. However, we send the message that most black people act like Jay-Z etc, that has an effect.

Here are the Jay-Z lyrics i spoke of earlier

• "N### I get mine - by any means on whenever there's a drought" Jay-Z lyrics
• "Allow me to re-introduce myself
  My name is Hov', OH, H-to-the-O-V
  I used to move snowflakes (drugs) by the O-Z
  I guess even back then you can call me
  CEO of the R-O-C, Hov'!" - Jay-Z lyrics

Again, when does this happen?? Please reference your assertion. These "thugs" as you judge them, have never aligned themselves with "all the great accomplishments of this culture..." (Side note: It's been more than 300 years) They are however, an accomplishment in and of themselves. Like it or not.

• This was answerd above.

Answering your "next topic."

Perhaps you are confused because you contradict yourself often. You single out "poorer blacks" as if they have a disease that needs curing. They don't. They are poor. Nothing else. Some have goals, others don't. Some spoiled rich kids have no goals, but you'd never know it because they live off of their Trust Funds...oops, wait a minute...did I just see Brittney, and Lindsey? Why don't you point the likes of these out? Why not attack Paris Hilton?

• I'm sorry, but poverty is a disease of poor choices, that can only be cured by making the right choices. It is that simple. Sure we all make choices, but the poor consistently make bad one's all the time. The reason they do it is simple, they are not held accountable, so i'm somehow self hating and racist against other blacks for holding them accountable and raising the standards and saying look consistently making bad choices is not acceptable?
• Again I answerd the Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan question early, but to clarify it and make it an American issue not just a black and white issue. Frankly, I think of them the say way I do Jay-Z or any other trashy person, that lacks moral or values. As an American i'd be offended if my son our daughter choose any of those listed as a positive role model, so this is cross cultural, but from a black guy stand point that should have no barring on my decision to not like Jay-Z. Hell, I do not care if John Edwards made a rap tape about selling dope, killing off white people, and then had videos of booty shacking white people in it. I'd find it offensive as an American, so just because someone else does something trashy of another race does not mean it's okay. Do you not understand the basics of right and wrong? Race has nothing to do with what's morally or civilly right or wrong?

I am not supporting nor damning any behavior. What I am saying to you is that you should not point the finger at poor blacks, rappers, entertainers, etc., simply because they do not fit your standard. Truth, what have you done in the past twenty years to uplift your culture?

• Um, let me think. I've gone to and graduated college. (in other words helped do my part to raise the education attainment level for young black males) Work a professional job. (helped decrease the unemployment rate of young black males) Take care of myself,(helped decrease the number of young black males living off the government) pay taxes, I've been investing in the stock market since i was a teenager, and I offer positive advice to my younger family members (who are also black), that's how i'm giving back to my culture. What about you?

I am proud to be AA. While it is obvious that you were brought up to believe that you are your brother's keeper, I was not. Allow me to explain. I do not feel threatened by nor embarrassed by other AAs. People are individuals. Judge them accordingly and STOP generalizing and stereotyping. This is racism, whether you agree or not. Didn't the KKK believe what they were doing was right?

• First, I neither feel threatened or embarrassed by other blacks. However, while this requires a more complex response I'll provide a simple rebuttle to this weakly formed question/statement.
• I'm an individualist and strict conservative. Therefore, i believe strongly in the rights and freedoms of individuals, that includes taking care of themselves, being responsible to their country, taking it upon themselves to invest in their own future, and taking responsibily for making chocies (whether good or bad you made it you live with it), that will help them succeed on their own. It is funny,that you seemed to have this collectivist attitude, but yet are calling me a racist? You have even gone as far as comparing to the KKK, an organization, that believed in terrorizing blacks. Where's the connection? I've simply asked for more responsibility and better choices in the most simplistic sense nothing more? I guess the real question should be why do you want continued failure amongst poor blacks?

AAs are doing much better than you think...see "What Black Men Think" by Janks Morton.

• Well, considering I happen to be a black male. I perfectly capable of thinking on my own, without reading a book about what other black men think. Also I never said the race overall was doing poorly I just stated it could be a lot better. Unlike you I do not satisfy myself with mediocrity i'd like to consider myself one that strives to be the best and i'd expect the same of people in my race regardless of what they choose to be in life. (Exmaple if you're a plumber be the best dam plumber in this country etc you get what i'm saying here?)
• In closing your agruments are clearly not very well thought out and it seems the real enemy of the black poor are black people like yourself. People, who believe, it is ok for them to waste away with all the opportunities this countries offers. This whole cry baby crap about blaming the victim only puts the "victim" at a futher disadvantage coddeld into the ever growing hands of the parental government system thus giving up more freedoms and more opportunities to better themselves. Good going Jaded.

Lastly I'll leave you with a few quotes

"He cannot be economically free, or even economically efficient, if he is enslaved politically; conversely, man's political freedom is illusory if he is dependent for his economic needs on the State" - Barry Goldwater

Here are the first two tenents from 12 things the Negro must do written in the early 1900 by Nannie Helen Burroughs (doubt a lib like you knows who she is)

1. The Negro Must Learn to Put First Things First. The first things Are; Education; Development of Character Traits; A Trade and Home Ownership.

2. The Negro must stop expecting God and White Folk to do for him what He can do For himself!