Prince George's County (Brandywine, Upper Marlboro: middle-class, apartment, rent)

[RoadTripGurl]

That analogy is true for all Metro areas. It's an area serving 3 areas (MD,DC,VA) so the it's usually higher than the suburbs.

[howsitgoingdude3]

Originally Posted by Novael

In general, I have agreed with your assertions, but how do you define upper middle class? Do you have statistics to back your claim? Is the class determined by net worth and not income? Not attacking, just wondering. Here I am thinking I'm doing ok for myself making 300K and I'm not even upper middle class

In reference to the topic, I believe PGC does indeed get a bad rap and I've visited friends in UM and Bowie, and those areas are nice, but no amenities. I live in Loudoun Cty, VA (right next to Great Falls) and I have the luxury of great shopping, eating, and good schools (when we have kids). I'd love to see the comeuppance of PGC, but should I wait for certain amenities to come to me. We should all hope PGC becomes the beacon for middle/upper-middle class black wealth. It would serve the community at large.

Hey Novael, I do not really want to jump into what defines upper middle class based on money, but i've read from a number of financial sources typically families making upwards of 150k or more. Now obviously 150k is at the bottom of the range and somewhere in the 2-5 million a year before tax is the top of the range for middle class. Then there's the rich probably somewhere between 5 - 35 million and then there's the wealthy 100 million plus a year. I stress before and after tax because if you make 2 million a year you're only walking away with 1.2 million after taxes and if you make a million a year you're only walking away with 600k after taxes just to put it in perspective.

Okay, to answer your second question I think too many people on this board are attempting to make PG county out to be either a hell hole or the black mecca of success. I personally feel it is neither, but leaning a lot closer to hell than to heaven. I'm not sure that PG is ready to set an example for "blacks" nor should the county residents feel they have too. There are only a small number of "upper class" residents living in a few very nice locations within the county and if i remember correctly those residents typically want no association whatsoever with those other residents living inside of the beltway. I'm not really sure how to respond to your question when the most influential blacks in America that live in the DC area always choose to live as far away from PG as possible. I mean how can you say it should be a model area when the smartest, wealthiest, brightest, and most politically connected black families always choose to live in Montgomery or Fairfax. If you've ever read the Black Enterprise 100 and look where all the black owned DC Metro Business are located. I think the only 1 that is located in PG county is Radio One and as I said before both the chairman and the CEO live in Potomac, MD. I mean that's my point. The reason the creame of the crop chooses not to live in PG is all of the reasons mentioned above by most of those that are just pointing out why there is not a largely number of more respected upper class blacks living there. Most do not want to deal with the crap that goes on in the county.

[howsitgoingdude3]

Originally Posted by maat

I live in Upper Marlboro. True, we don't have the amenities that the other counties in the WMA have. Everyone who says why wait for amenities when you can go elsewhere has a valid point. Would I love to be able to shop here, of course. But for many of us it is bigger than restaurants and retailers, it's about history. We are passionate about Prince George's. In this county, for the first time in US history, the median income rose as the demographic became more African American. We have an opportunity to create a great place to live and at the same time solve social issues that have plagued our communities for decades. We have an opportunity to narrow the achievement gap in our schools and show the rest of the country how to get that done. I grew up in a household where community service was stressed above the personal. I don't know how else to live. If I moved to a more affluent community so I would have a shorter drive to the mall I would feel like I was turning my back on my community. Things are already changing in leaps and bounds. I live here and it's hard for me to keep up. We don't want to be a replica of Fairfax or Montgomery. We want a community that reflects our demographic.

Maat, i'm not sure how old you are, but they (residents of the county )have been using that tired line for 15 years. In fact its getting much worse and will continue to get much worse. The school system is a lot worse now then it was 10 years ago and getting worse. The crime level, which has always been high is much higher now than it was 10 years ago. I mean its a shame that PG County a DC suburb as more murders than DC. I've never ever heard of something that crazy before. Considering that DC 20 years ago was the murder capital of the world. PG executives do a poor job of bringing quality jobs to the area. They do a poor job of providing different classes of residents different amenities to suite their lifestyle needs. I mean it took 15 years for you guys to get Toll Brothers to start building houses in PG. I mean most of the "upscale" housing looks like crap when compared to the same neighborhoods in other counties. Its cookie cutter bs and then they pass it off to the black residents as "luxury" housing when its a mockery and sub par at best! Woodmore does have some nice house, but how many Woodmore type neighborhoods are in PG? 1 or 2 and that's it! Hell, i'd challenge anyone that disgrees to travel down River Road or Georgetown Pike and look at how they build houses in that area for the "upper class." If you want to live upper class demand more stop settling for this half a@@ bs they call luxury in PG and demand the county executives get higher quality real luxury respected homebuilders in not these Charleston Homes brands. I mean the difference in quality is obvious. Hell if I want Frosted Flakes I don't go to the store and buy the Generic brand just cause they say it looks just like the real thing and might taste like it on a good day!!! The standards are still set to low for the county to really start to achieve on all levels!

[triniboy]

Ignorance again talking people. There are some areas in Montgomery county that can`t even come close to Potomac and I know cause I have friends that live there and I`ve been inside their house. ****, there are areas in PG county that look better than some areas in Montgomery county so please , I`m not talkign about the hood. This person whoever wrote this message is clearly ignorant and again I won`t call any names. ****, there are some places in Trinidad that look better than Montgomery county. You choose to differ. Do some research and Trinidad and see where we get our money son. Oil money is what it`s caled. Some people think that nowhere else is nicer than America and other places have a poor quality of life but again, ignorance as usal. Just laugh at you people yes.LOL. That`s Trini talk. Obviously Woodmore isn`t the only communtiy in the entire PG area that looks like that?????? I`ve been there and yes there are beautiful homes, there are also homes like that in Laurel where I live as well. I live in an NV home which is alomost 5,000sq foot in the Glens of Wellington but people who don`t pass through these areas always assume and don`t know and no you don`t have to pass through the hood to get there. I`ll call you guys ASSUMERS. That`s a name so yea I called you an ASSUMER. Report me now. How could there only be 2 areas in the whole of PG like that. Senseless or Non-sensical, whichever way you want to take it. Look at the size of PG county and look at the size of Montgomery county. Just look at the land mass and do some reasearch of different areas and you`ll see that different zips in PG compaared to zips in Mont gomery county and other counties are also high in Median income is just as good or sometimes better. Now remember before you start bashing that Laurel is in four counties for those of you that didn`t know so here is an educational class for all you over achievers or for the one`s that THINK they are smart. read away scientists. LOL.

[maat]

howsitgoingdude3, None of my 4 posts on this forum have been about luxury houses or upscale anything. I'm not touting Woodmore or any of the other communities mentioned here as luxury. In fact I think I've said I'm more encouraged by the projects inside the beltway than outside because those communities have been neglected for so long. I've lived here a long time so I'm not being duped by other residents tired lines. I just have a different perspective than you do.

[triniboy]

Ok that`s respectable because your speaking of your past experiences. All I`m saying is stop generalizing. People do that too much here. Damn, just give it up. I`m not speaking about you but to everyone. Stop the generalizing..

[Truth-B-told]

Let me add my $0.02, What your hearing is true bout PG, both good and bad. This is what u need to consider more then anything. Cost of living: Housing-$200k to $500k for condos/townhomes and $500k to $1M+ for S.F. little to no land in most cases. Apts - $1k to $3K per month. Property tax, hi. We pay close to $4k a yr for 4BD/2.5BA in southern part of county. Water is hi unless u have submeter ($1200-2000) to install. Seen it as hi as $400 in summer month for water grass. (Rocks now cover the landscape). Electric just went up as did Gas over a yr ago. HI/Lo - $400/50 and I make the family wear outerwear indoors in the cold months.

Again, your cost will depend on your residence but these are soe to consider. As for the field your in, teachers are in hi demand in this entire area (MD,DC,VA). PG needs good teachers, the reward is in the lives touched.

Problem about the Co. is that Md boys are forced to compete with the DC boys. City boys are always ruff'r. What happen here recently is that DC closed some of its projects/ghettos and PG took in some folks with different value systems. Crime has increased and doesn't seem to be getting better.

Good places to live-
Bowie/Upper Marlboro, multi-racial working middle to upper middle class or higher.
There are other places that folks will say is just as good or better and in a lot of cases they will be right but aft. u consider juvenile crime stats u might think differently. PG is close to DC & Baltimore so crime happens as does it anywhere in the USA but this area unfortunately is about how deep your pockets can go.

[Novael]

Originally Posted by howsitgoingdude3

Hey Novael, I do not really want to jump into what defines upper middle class based on money, but i've read from a number of financial sources typically families making upwards of 150k or more. Now obviously 150k is at the bottom of the range and somewhere in the 2-5 million a year before tax is the top of the range for middle class. Then there's the rich probably somewhere between 5 - 35 million and then there's the wealthy 100 million plus a year. I stress before and after tax because if you make 2 million a year you're only walking away with 1.2 million after taxes and if you make a million a year you're only walking away with 600k after taxes just to put it in perspective.

Okay, to answer your second question I think too many people on this board are attempting to make PG county out to be either a hell hole or the black mecca of success. I personally feel it is neither, but leaning a lot closer to hell than to heaven. I'm not sure that PG is ready to set an example for "blacks" nor should the county residents feel they have too. There are only a small number of "upper class" residents living in a few very nice locations within the county and if i remember correctly those residents typically want no association whatsoever with those other residents living inside of the beltway. I'm not really sure how to respond to your question when the most influential blacks in America that live in the DC area always choose to live as far away from PG as possible. I mean how can you say it should be a model area when the smartest, wealthiest, brightest, and most politically connected black families always choose to live in Montgomery or Fairfax. If you've ever read the Black Enterprise 100 and look where all the black owned DC Metro Business are located. I think the only 1 that is located in PG county is Radio One and as I said before both the chairman and the CEO live in Potomac, MD. I mean that's my point. The reason the creame of the crop chooses not to live in PG is all of the reasons mentioned above by most of those that are just pointing out why there is not a largely number of more respected upper class blacks living there. Most do not want to deal with the crap that goes on in the county.

You said you don't want to define upper middle class in terms of money, but then how would you define it if not money? Ultimately, net worth would be a better barometer for class because there are tons of high income earners with little relative wealth. I first posed that question, not for a specific answer, but to demonstrate that one should be careful not to make claims without the backing of data. Of course I know that I'm considered upper middle class because I'm in the top 2% of income earners. And trust me, I know about taxes (don't even need to get into that).

For the second question, I think you took it out of context. I stated that I would hope that PGC would become a beacon of black middle class wealth, but has a long way to go. The reason I don't live there is because of the lack of amenities (not just your classic big box stores and chain restaurants), crime and the schools. Why should I pay to send my child to a private school just to have a cheaper house? Why not invest that money into a house in VA and send my child to a good public school?

There are a number of black professionals that would like a "black mecca." It's only natural for humans to seek out homogenous environments. With the desegration of schools in the south, there was black flight; well-to-do blacks who left the inner cities to move to areas with better schools. And the same is happening in PGC, blacks moving to counties further south and crossing the pond looking for better opportunities and schooling. My point is that it is with some disappointment that they leave because they would love to have that mecca. PGC could become that, hopefully. We'll just have to wait and see.

[howsitgoingdude3]

Originally Posted by Novael

You said you don't want to define upper middle class in terms of money, but then how would you define it if not money? Ultimately, net worth would be a better barometer for class because there are tons of high income earners with little relative wealth. I first posed that question, not for a specific answer, but to demonstrate that one should be careful not to make claims without the backing of data. Of course I know that I'm considered upper middle class because I'm in the top 2% of income earners. And trust me, I know about taxes (don't even need to get into that).

For the second question, I think you took it out of context. I stated that I would hope that PGC would become a beacon of black middle class wealth, but has a long way to go. The reason I don't live there is because of the lack of amenities (not just your classic big box stores and chain restaurants), crime and the schools. Why should I pay to send my child to a private school just to have a cheaper house? Why not invest that money into a house in VA and send my child to a good public school?

There are a number of black professionals that would like a "black mecca." It's only natural for humans to seek out homogenous environments. With the desegration of schools in the south, there was black flight; well-to-do blacks who left the inner cities to move to areas with better schools. And the same is happening in PGC, blacks moving to counties further south and crossing the pond looking for better opportunities and schooling. My point is that it is with some disappointment that they leave because they would love to have that mecca. PGC could become that, hopefully. We'll just have to wait and see.

Novael, okay, here’s a quick response to your aforementioned question above about money and class! Well, money is just one component that describes class and defines class level. I've mentioned earlier yes, a poor person can move up in class, but a person born into a higher class cannot move down in class. Money is a large component of class, but I stressed there are a number of other components, that also go along with money to help solidify and define your class. If your grandparents are or were very well educated, then most likely so are your parents and there are certain customs and traditions, that come with generations of well educated people. Again I’m giving that as one example and saying that money is not the single determinant socially of who's "upper class" and who is not upper class. I mean do you consider Jay Z to be "upper class"?? Surly one wouldn’t deny he has a large amount wealth, but I’m sure no one would consider him “upper class.” Yes, the fact is he is rich or wealthy, but that doesn’t mean it has bought him any class. He still has poor grammar and on occasion extremely poor taste in dress and may lack some basic dinning social graces, that other have. This is my point money doesn’t determine your class unless you accept the traditions and social norms of that particular class. Hell, Rosanne Barr is rich, but would you consider her classy?

On to your next set of rebuttals I think we are in the same ball park here. You've merely restated most of what I’ve said about why I think most of those people choose not to live in PG.

Novael, on to your next question there only like 30-35 million black people in this country. 2 million are in jail and 10 million live under the poverty line. The rest are working poor, middle class, and small portions are upper middle and an even smaller portion is wealthy. The upper middle and wealthy live all over this country, so yes, it would be nice if PG became the place were "all" this upper class blacks decided to live, but I do not think there needs to be a place. I think it’s better if we are all spread out as opposed to one place. I do not see a legitimate argument in favor of creating a single black mecca. I mean why do you we need that and how would that serve the greater community?

[lscalder]

As for as luxury homes and communities in pg the county officials have set standard for builders as far as the homes and communities have to offer amenities and have to have land. People move to pg for the land size and home size which are usaully larger homes in pg county then Montgomery and other counties as far as standards go for lot size and home size. What people need to understand about pg county is th efolks who are moving here on the average are purchasing home for 400k or higher. Most people who choose to live in pg are moving here because of the new homes and communites and their amenities. If you want to see why people are moving to pg take a lot at the new communites and you will understand.