do Maryland residents consider themselves as "Southerners?" (Baltimore: transfer, prices)

[tercel95]

The problem here is that we all seem to have a different definition of "southern"...

Some people consider it purely geographical, other people consider it a demographic (rednecks, good ol' boys, hillbillies, etc...), others refer to the way people make a living (farming, fishing, etc...) Nobody is really wrong and we can't just put some arbitrary label like "northern" or "southern" on MD...

My personal experience is that when I lived in Montgomery county we used to hang out at the movie theater or go to the mall... The attitudes of my friends and I is not what I would consider "southern" at all... The fake rich people and built up town centers didn't feel "southern" and the people trying to sell drugs to me on the corner didn't feel "southern"...

In Southern MD, fishing on the river while drinking a domestic beer just felt "southern" to me... Going to big BBQs where people sometimes killed the animal we were about to eat, just felt "southern" to me... Being at my friends parents house that lived on 15 acres hearing guns (hunting, not gangsta style like MO county) felt "southern" to me... Seeing jacked pickup trucks everywhere even feels "southern" to me...

[kjg1963]

I've lived in PG County my whole life (over 40 years). I thought I was far removed from anything southern. I've never identified as southern and I never felt a southern influence here (at all!). Maybe an outsider may see something southern here, but I don't and I've been here my whole life.

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

I know this is already obvious cpterp, but there's no point in discussing this with you any further. You have the nerve to call me stubborn and persistent, yet despite evidence to the contrary, at the end of the day you only believe what you want to believe, and only provide evidence you can find that supports your own agenda. I never denied Maryland had some Northeastern characteristics, but to claim that the entire state as such is simply inaccurate. You deny the Southern quirks of Maryland, or downplay them as much as possible due to some outlandish prejudice you have, all so you could feel that you live in a Northeastern state when you really don't.

Please point out where I said that you were "stubborn and persistent." I would say that the latter term would acurately describe me. If you go to the very first page, you'll notice that the very same posters who are on that page (including me) are the very same posters still discussing the topic. Not that you'd believe me, but I have no prejudice against anyone. Most posters on this thread are claiming Maryland to be Northern (or more so than southern). There's a same exact thread on the Gen. US page, with similar views.

I love where I live, and wouldn't love it any less if were defined as Northern, Southern, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, whatever...Maryland, Delaware, and West Virginia aren't black and white North or South, just like Pennsylvania has numerous Midwestern characterisitcs it's generally referred to as a Northeastern state. I admitted Maryland had parts that were Southern and all I've been saying this entire time is that the Northern characteristics far outweigh the Southern ones, while you're basically saying the opposite.

[vivo]

Originally Posted by kjg1963

I've lived in PG County my whole life (over 40 years). I thought I was far removed from anything southern. I've never identified as southern and I never felt a southern influence here (at all!). Maybe an outsider may see something southern here, but I don't and I've been here my whole life.

you mean in Laurel? perhaps someone in Brandywine would feel differently.

[kjg1963]

Originally Posted by vivo

you mean in Laurel? perhaps someone in Brandywine would feel differently.

I grew up close to Langley Park near the Montgomery Co Line. I've lived in Riverdale, Beltsville, and Hyattsville. I've only been in Laurel for the last 14 years. And, yes, you are probably right, maybe someone in Brandywind would feel different. PG County is a large county and the northern and southern ends are a little different. To be honest, I hear more of a "country" accent in Laurel than anywhere else.

[westsideboy]

I just realized that most of our discussion has been about proving or disproving Maryland's Southern heritage. I think it is time we discussed what Northern heritage is, and to what extent it appears in Maryland. To be fair, any pre-1860 identity should be considered history ( I am sure Cpterp would agree.) Also vague comments about suburbia and the rush rush commuter lifestyle should be excluded since those are traits that exists anywhere in America there is rapid new growth.

So if the South is the land of sweet tea and fried chicken; twangs and drawls; and vesitages of that "peculiar institution," What is the North?

[Stephen 81]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I just realized that most of our discussion has been about proving or disproving Maryland's Southern heritage. I think it is time we discussed what Northern heritage is, and to what extent it appears in Maryland. To be fair, any pre-1860 identity should be considered history ( I am sure Cpterp would agree.) Also vague comments about suburbia and the rush rush commuter lifestyle should be excluded since those are traits that exists anywhere in America there is rapid new growth.

So if the South is the land of sweet tea and fried chicken; twangs and drawls; and vesitages of that "peculiar institution," What is the North?

Excellent question!

I would say the North involves non-Anglo Saxon white people (Irish, Italians, Jews), heavy industry (or at least abandoned remnants of heavy industry), no African Americans in rural areas, and possibly people who are more honest (or plain old blunt) about their thoughts and opinions.

I think a lot of Maryland meets my standards, like Carroll or Baltimore, and a lot of Maryland doesn't, like St. Mary's or Salisbury. But like I said earlier in this thread, I think parts of Maryland are clearly Northern, and parts are clearly Southern. But mild versions of both

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I just realized that most of our discussion has been about proving or disproving Maryland's Southern heritage. I think it is time we discussed what Northern heritage is, and to what extent it appears in Maryland. To be fair, any pre-1860 identity should be considered history ( I am sure Cpterp would agree.) Also vague comments about suburbia and the rush rush commuter lifestyle should be excluded since those are traits that exists anywhere in America there is rapid new growth.

So if the South is the land of sweet tea and fried chicken; twangs and drawls; and vesitages of that "peculiar institution," What is the North?

I'll assume that North means Northeast (Washington, North Dakota, and Illinois are Northern). In addition to Stephen's very accurate description you'll find that the nearly all Northeastern states share the following qualities:

-small
-well educated
-densely populated
-wealthy
-economies heavily focused on tech/financial/service sector
-have good rail transit (vast majority of population lives within an hour of some form of frequent rail service whether intercity, light, commuter, or heavy rail)
-heavily liberal/Democratic
-didn't secede (regardless of extraneous "motivating" factors)
-fast-paced; unfriendly (subjective)
-high prevalency of lyme disease (File:Lyme Disease Risk Map.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
-it actually gets cold in winter (subjective, but duh)

N.B. You may find a few Southern states may share a couple of these characteristics, but no state has all (or even most) of them.

[westsideboy]

The lyme disease map speaks to a much simpler truth, deer with the infected ticks can't swim across the Potomac River. That trait has nothing to do with American regional identity.

Most of the other traits listed seem like reasonable indicators of Northeastern culture. The only trouble I have with them is that they seem to speak as much to the Urban/Rural divide in our country than the North/South. For example the rural areas of the Northeastern states are going to have less educated, less population density, and more conservative in politics, while the urban areas of the South would more closely resemble the urban areas of the North in these areas then their neighboring rural counties.

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

The lyme disease map speaks to a much simpler truth, deer with the infected ticks can't swim across the Potomac River. That trait has nothing to do with American regional identity.

Most of the other traits listed seem like reasonable indicators of Northeastern culture. The only trouble I have with them is that they seem to speak as much to the Urban/Rural divide in our country than the North/South. For example the rural areas of the Northeastern states are going to have less educated, less population density, and more conservative in politics, while the urban areas of the South would more closely resemble the urban areas of the North in these areas then their neighboring rural counties.

The lyme disease thing was something I found interesting. It seemed strange that it would be so densely concentrated in a particular area of the country (plus Wisconsin for some reason). I agree about the urban/rural split, but it stresses the densely populated characteristic of the NE. Apart from New York and Penn., most Northeastern states have a large proportion of their land that is urban/suburban. 14 out of Maryland's 24 counties (counting B'more as a county) are part of either the DC, Baltimore, or Philadelphia Metro Area.

This doesn't directly relate to your post but another thing to consider is that urban areas of the North aren't layed out the same as those in the South. For instance in most cities from DC to Boston you'll find row houses very prevalent, while they're very uncommon in the South. Population densities are also relatively low for Southern cities. Prominent Southern cities such as Charlotte, Richmond, Orlando, Charleston, New Orleans, and Atlanta all have population densities less than 4,000/sq. mi. while nearly all large Northeastern cities have densities of at least double that (8K-12K mostly; New York is 27,000/sq mi), even with the rapid population growth of Southern cities like Orlando and Atlanta, and the decline of NE cities such as Baltimore.