do Maryland residents consider themselves as "Southerners?" (Baltimore: moving to, transportation)

[tercel95]

Originally Posted by mississippimagnolia

I didn't know anyone in Maryland considered themselves "Southerners". No. There is nothing southern about Maryland.

Again a blanket statement that assumes your opinion is that of everyone elses in MD... That is why this thread has gone downhill and instead of sparking intelligent conversation about how a MD resident feels about his/her heritage it turns into people having to defend their opinions because other people assume the entire state of MD think the way that they do...

Let me guess you live within 20 miles of DC?

[terrence81]

Originally Posted by tercel95

Again a blanket statement that assumes your opinion is that of everyone elses in MD... That is why this thread has gone downhill and instead of sparking intelligent conversation about how a MD resident feels about his/her heritage it turns into people having to defend their opinions because other people assume the entire state of MD think the way that they do...

Let me guess you live within 20 miles of DC?

I don't see the problem. I mean nobody is going around saying that their opinion alone represents the whole state. The person just stated that they didn't know anyone from Maryland that considered themselves southern that's all. I don't know anyone from Maryland that considers themselves southern either.

[tercel95]

Originally Posted by terrence81

I don't see the problem. I mean nobody is going around saying that their opinion alone represents the whole state. The person just stated that they didn't know anyone from Maryland that considered themselves southern that's all. I don't know anyone from Maryland that considers themselves southern either.

The statement was made that "there is nothing southern about MD" which I believe to be false...

There are plenty of people on here saying that MD is Northern and thats all, or saying "I" live XXXX and "we" feel XXX... That kind of tone implies that they believe that the majority of other people feel the same way...

[kjg1963]

I think the original question was if Marylanders considered themselves southern. To me, it asks about a person's personal feelings. The question did not ask if Maryland is southern, mid-atlantic, or northern. I do not consider MYSELF to be southern. That is how I feel. It doesn't matter geographically where Maryland lies or its history. I personally don't feel any kinship to the south. I am not a transplant from somewhere else either. I was born here and I've always lived here (except for a short stint in VA).

[terrence81]

Originally Posted by msa76

Yes, Maryland is southern. Ever heard of Frederick Douglass? Or the Star Spangled Banner, perhaps? We are below the Mason-Dixon line, thank you very much. (And that is the definition of the South, by the way; that and in the Civil War, Maryland tried to secede but was stopped by federal troops when Lincoln felt it too dangerous to have D.C. surrounded on all sides by Conferderate states, because Virginia had already seceded.). It is very different from the Deep South but by any definition is southern. "Southernness," so to speak, may be more alive and well on the Eastern Shore or western MD than the D.C.-Baltimore corridor, but trust me, it's southern.

I'm familiar with Frederick Douglass. I took a course in African American literature most pre-Civil War. Yes indeed he was a slave in Maryland. He was taught to read in Baltimore I do believe.

A lot of people point to the slavery thing as concrete evidence of Maryland's "southernness". Well all the states at one time or another had slavery. Also keep in mind that Missouri had slavery all the way until the Civil War but no one has argued that its southern, not that I know of.

Star spangled banner? What's that I'm confused. No seriously, I'm confused. I'm not really sure what the star spangeled banner has anything to do with the argument. Wasn't that written during the war of 1812?

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by tercel95

What is DMV?

DC/Maryland/Virginia

In general, I don't think Marylanders consider themselves as "Southerners". But to say there is nothing Southern in or about Maryland is in error. That's what irks me.

[cpterp]

Geez this thread keeps going in circles. I really think we should change the question to: Is Maryland Southern now? In 2009. Yes, we had slaves, yes we had tobacco, yes the M-D Line was a good dividing point between North and South at the time of Missouri Compromise, and yes there was some support in MD for the Conefederacy, but all that was 150-200 years ago. Even then, all those points don't tie Maryland to the South nearly as much as "true" Southern states. Half of Maryland's slaves were free at the time of the Civil War. Which other Southern state can claim that? Maryland long ago stopped producing tobacco, and it was only truly successful in small parts of the state. Also, despite the dissent Maryland ultimately joined and fought for the Union and voted not to secede. It's like people are annoyed that Lincoln coerced the state into doing it.

As I've said before I agree that Maryland does have Southern traits, but the Northern ones are more prominent, and as many have said it's not easy to blanket classify the state. Since just before the Civil War Maryland has transformed itself probably more than any other state on the East Coast (except maybe FL), and this has rapidly changed the state's cultural balance. Maryland's unofficial nickname is "America in Miniature" because there are so many different cultures packed into such a small state. Also, there is no definite border between North and South that as soon as you cross it you'll see a remarkable difference. In my opinion though the change from South to North begins in Fredericksburg on I-95, and I've heard many other people say that.

So how do we decide where to classify Maryland? Obviously "Mid-Atlantic is satisfying anybody, since the definition wildly varies. Well, since the culture is so different, and since everybody has had different experiences influencing their opinion of whether the state is Southern or not, and as some said who dominates who shouldn't be a factor we should through out everone's personal experiences and go to paper. Cold, hard facts. Does Maryland share more with the Northeast or with the South? I've posted these many times before but here we go again.

Since this post is too long (feels like writing an essay ) I'll put the "facts" in another post...

[North Beach Person]

Historically Upper South
Geographically Mid-Atlantic
Culturally-depends on where you are, unlike Cpterp I find many "Southern" traits in SoMD and the Shore, overlaid with a touch of shorebilly.
My oldest daughter went to college in western PA and the people there always commented on her "Southern" accent.

Posted from "Cawlvert" County, where I had a right fair day, my neighbor didn't hit a lick and the Po-leece didn't follow the ambuLANCE up the street.

[westsideboy]

This thread keeps going in circles because the same posters (myself included) keep trying to have the last word. I will be the first to say it.......TRUCE!

[cpterp]

This is a reeeeaaalllly long post, and took about 40min to put together (yep, I'm that bored). My economics background probably fuels this compulsion I have for statistics. Anyway, for the ranking data I'll post the closest 3 Northern and the closest 3 Southern states to MD (not including DE, FL, and WV since they're always under debate as well). Missouri and Texas each cover two regions of the country so I'll post them but won't count them towards the 3 Southeast states. Most ranking data is from the CB, and can be found here: ACS Ranking Tables - American FactFinder.

Accent:
Two accent maps from UPenn and Robert Delaney.
http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/images/diausa.gif
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...apsS/Map1S.GIF

Let's say that the lower Eastern Shore and lower Southern Maryland speaks with a Southern Accent and the rest speak with a "Northern" one.

Wealth:

A. Median household income

Maryland rank:1st

2. New Jersey (NE)
3. Connecticut (NE)
6. New Hampshire (NE)
9. Virginia (SE)
24. Georgia (SE)
29. Texas (SE/SW)
37. Missouri (SE/MW)
38. North Carolina (SE)
United States and States - R1901. Median Household Income

B. Percent of Housing Units That Are Mobile Homes

Maryland rank: 45

14. Georgia
20. Oklahoma
22. Texas (SE/SW)
27. Missouri (SE/MW)
29. Virginia
44. New York
46. New Jersey
47. Connecticut


Economy:
A. The New Economy Index released by the Kauffman Foundation ranking states by how focused their economies are on knowledge, technology, and innovation:

Maryland rank: 3rd

1. Massachusetts (NE)
5. New Jersey (NE)
6. Connecticut (NE)
7. Virginia (SE)
18. Texas (SE/SW)
24. North Carolina (SE)
34. South Carolina (SE)

http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedfile...dex_120908.pdf

B. Percent of Civilian Employed Population 16 Years and Over in Management, Business, and Financial Occupations:

Maryland rank: 2

3. Virginia (SE)
4. Massachusetts (NE)
5. New Jersey (NE)
9. Connecticut (NE)
15. Georgia (SE)
26. Texas (SE/SW)
32. Missouri (SE/SW)
33. North Carolina (SE)


Politics:

A. 2004 Presidential Election:
-Maryland votes solidly Democrat
-All Northeast states vote solidly Democrat
-No Southern state votes Democrat
File:ElectoralCollege2004.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

B. 2008 Presidential Election:
-Maryland provides Obama with one of his best 5 margins of victory
-All Northeast states vote Democrat.
-North Carolina and Virginia are only Southern states to vote Democrat.
File:ElectoralCollege2008.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

C. Maryland's governor, both senators, and 7 out of 8 House reps. are Democrats along with a large majority of other elected officials.

D. Meractus Center Study on "Least Free" States

N.B. This study was carried out by a conservative think tank at George Mason University, and has some bias, but the grouping of the states seem to be accurate.

I. Fiscal Policy

Maryland rank: 34th

30. Mississippi (SE)
33. Kentucky (SE)
37. Massachusetts (NE)
38. Connecticutt (NE)
39. Arkansas (SE)
42. Rhode Island (NE)

II. Regulatory Policy

Maryland rank: 47

32. Kentucky (SE)
34. Mississippi (SE)
41. Arkansas (SE)
44. New York (NE)
48. Rhode Island (NE)
49. New Jersey (NE)


III. Economic Freedom
(very similar to Fiscal Policy)

IV. Personal Freedom

Maryland rank: 50

41. Alabama (SE)
42. Georgia (SE)
43. South Carolina (SE)
45. New Jersey (NE)
47. Rhode Island (NE)
48. New York (NE)

http://www.mercatus.org/uploadedFiles/Mercatus/Publications/Freedom%20in%20the%2050%20States.pdf (broken link)

Environmental Initiatives:
A. Forbes America's Greenest States:

Maryland rank: 5th

6. Connecticut
7. New Jersey
8. Rhode Island
23. Virginia
26. North Carolina
29. Georgia

America's Greenest States - Forbes.com

B. Maryland is a member of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative composed of the entire Northeast (including DE, DC, and MD), 3 Canadian provinces, and no Southern states. Pennsylvania, DC, and the Canadian provinces are observers.

Education:

A. Percent of People 25 Years and Over Who Have Completed a Bachelor's Degree

Maryland rank: 3rd

2. Massachusetts (NE)
5. Connecticut (NE)
6. New Jersey (NE)
7. Virginia (SE)
21. Georgia (SE)
29. North Carolina (SE)

B. Percent of People 25 Years and Over Who Have Completed an Advanced Degree:

Maryland: 3rd

2. Massachusetts (NE)
4. Connecticut (NE)
5. Virginia (SE)
6. New York (NE)
23. Georgia (SE)
28. Missouri (SE/MW)
32. North Carolina (SE)

Transportation:

A. Mean Travel Time to Work (longest to shortest)

Maryland rank: 2nd (31.1 minutes)

1. New York (NE)
4. New Jersey (NE)
6. Massachusetts (NE.)
9. Virginia (SE)
17. Texas (SE/SW)
18. Louisiana (SE)
21. Alabama (SE)

B. Percent of Workers 16 Years and Over Who Traveled to Work by Public Transportation

Maryland rank: 6th

2. New York
3. New Jersey
4. Massachusetts
12. Virginia
20. Georgia
24. Texas
26. Missouri
30. Kentucky

Population Density:

Maryland rank: 5th

3. Massachusetts (NE)
4. Connecticut (NE)
6. New York (NE)
14. Virginia (SE)
15. North Carolina (SE)
18. Georgia (SE)

Race/Diversity:

A. Percent of the Total Population Who Are White Alone

Maryland rank: 47th

26. Connecticut (NE)
40. New Jersey (NE)
44. New York (NE)
45. Louisiana (SE)
46. Georgia (SE)
49. Mississippi (SE)

B. Percent of the Total Population Who Are Black or African American Alone

Maryland rank: 5th

4. Georgia (SE)
6. South Carolina (SE)
7. Alabama (SE)
12. New York (NE)
17. New Jersey (NE)
21. Pennsylvania (NE)

C. Percent of the Total Population Who Are Asian Alone

Maryland rank: 7th

3. New Jersey (NE)
4. New York (NE)
8. Massachusetts (NE)
8 (tie). Virginia (SE)
18. Georgia (SE)
29. North Carolina (SE)