A Tale of Two Counties---Montgomery vs. Prince George's (Greenbelt, Hyattsville: 2009, crime)

[convex20899]

I would stay away from both counties. Growing up in P.G, I would never return to live. Working in Montgomery tax tax tax. Move west my friend.. To Washington county.

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by Mom21

To the original poster: You must not be keeping up with the news. Montgomery county has been going downhill lately, particularly as it relates to crime and gang activity. Given the traffic nightmare and the high cost of housing, together with the increase in crime, it's hardly as desirable as it use to be.

Montgomery is not going downhill. Most of it is as nice or nicer than Fairfax. The news only focuses on certain things.

[kdavani]

I def agree, Mont County IS def nicer than fairfax. I dont think the issue solely revolves around race but more income. Avg. income in PG county is extremely lower than Mont Co. With a completely diff class of people the area will obviously be diff. And there is a correlation with low class and high crime. Also, families in this area do not stress education as much. The kids are doing worse in school for w/e reasons (family problems, social networks, not as much support, bad teaching, who knowwss) I have no clue why it is, but it is clear they arent doing as well in school.

Yes, there are areas of Mont Co that aren't as good. But the worst Mont Co schools are still miles ahead of PG schools. And the unsafest areas in Mont Co still have less crime than PG county.

Also, i think the poster of this question was just curious in general, i doubt they wanted this to turn into a racist argument so some of you should calm down a little.

[Bigbluelandrover]

Since I live in the "undesireable East" side of Moco I will say that parts of this area ARE run down. Parts of Langley, parts of White Oak, Rockville, Germantown,Wheaton--all have patches of bad areas with high crime, low income housing and a lot of other riff raff. Housing prices reflect where the bad areas are.

The nicest parts of Montgomery are west of Georgia ave and closer to Bethesda, also Gaithersburg and some of the northern suburbs towards Howard and Frederick county. My kids like where they go to school and some of the gritty parts don't bother me but people need to chill with thinking Montgomery is all that.

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by live_strong28

I am not saying the county is in the state that it is because the officials are black.

Sure sounded that way.

Originally Posted by live_strong28

I am saying that the majority blacks in PG Cty are in charge of their own destiny, and have chosen elected officials that mirror them and their values to make PG Cty the best that it can be. Whether that has been playing out as intended, the results tell the story.

In Dr. Deasy's case, when you narrow down the pool of candidates and eliminate those who don't necessarily look like you, then you're eliminating a lot of good candidates that not only could do as well, but possibly better. Pick the best person for the job.

It's like when Patrick Ewing said that the black players in the NBA should be getting more money because the white ownership is making a lot more money off them. Well, in PG Cty's case, the ownership is black.

Don't look at what people are saying.

Look at the results. Do they meet your standards?

This has nothing to do with me. Thanks for verifying my point, though.

Originally Posted by kdavani

Also, i think the poster of this question was just curious in general, i doubt they wanted this to turn into a racist argument so some of you should calm down a little.

I'm not upset, and I'm not trying to turn this into a race thing -- but it is a race thing, whether people want to admit it or not. People claim the sky is falling in Montgomery County because of a large influx of "illegals", for one thing, and there's a sitgma around PG County for some reason. Hmmm, what makes it so different from the other counties of the area? Oh, I know. A lot of black people! And people use the demographics of the citizens of PG County as blame to justify in why it's not in as good shape as other counties.

[cpterp]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Coming from Northern Virginia, where the two heavily-populated counties of Fairfax and Loudoun, just to the west and southwest of DC, are both generally upper-middle-class with above-average public schools and below-average crime, I find it a bit unusual that the same isn't true for the two primary inner suburban counties on the Maryland side of DC---Montgomery, which is not unlike Fairfax County in many respects, and Prince George's, which is constantly being mentioned for crime on the local news and has very low housing prices. What has caused much of Montgomery County to have adopted a suburban soccer mom/yuppie vibe while Prince George's County has not had the same success? Is it because Montgomery County is adjacent to affluent NW DC whereas Prince George's is next to generally undesirable NE DC and SE DC? Are people from SE DC and NE DC being "squeezed out" into Prince George's County as gentrification takes hold of the District?

Please pardon my admitted generalizations in some regards, but essentially I get the sense that these two counties are polar opposites, even though they are neighbors. Is this true? One would think that with Metro accessibility and proximity to Annapolis and Baltimore in addition to DC that Prince George's County SHOULD be booming. What is the reason why it has fallen so far behind Montgomery County? I know there are some bright spots like Hyattsville, Greenbelt, and parts of Oxon Hill (specifically the National Habor area), but overall it seems like a lot of Prince George's County is considered to be undesirable.

"I find it a bit unusual that the same isn't true for the two primary inner suburban counties on the Maryland side of DC"

Really...this kind of looks like a ploy to set up another "let's bash PG County thread" (especially with all the loaded questions and if you read between the lines); there are so many of those threads on this board already. If it truly is sincere forgive me, but it seems that Prince George's is the DC Area's favorite punching bag. Anyway, I digress....

"Are people from SE DC and NE DC being "squeezed out" into Prince George's County as gentrification takes hold of the District?"

Oh, so you know already know half the problem. next...

"a lot of Prince George's County is considered to be undesirable"

Let me first say that every single Metropolitan Area in the country has "bad" areas. In the DC Area the majority of them happen to be in SE DC, and some in NE and PG County. Only very small parts of PG County located in the Southwestern and Western portions of the county inside the Beltway are "undesirable," but of course they skew the county statistics and thus formulate people's stereotypes of the county.


Also, let me focus on your presupposition that PG County as a whole is "undesirable." It doesn't rank with MoCo, but it's certainly not the polar opposite of Montgomery County. Some of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in the country (Bowie, Fort Washington, Mitchelville) are located in Prince George's County and it is the wealthiest minority-majority county in the country. PG County also has some of the top schools in the country. I started another thread a while back when Newsweek placed 5 PGC schools on their Top 1000 High Schools list. PG County also has a highly-coveted AAA bond rating, something that very few counties have.

Remember which counties you're comparing PG to. So what if it's not on the same level as Fairfax or Montgomery, the 2nd and 8th wealthiest large counties in the country respectively. 99% of the counties in this country aren't on that level, and PG doesn't need to be. I'll take it as a given that you realize there are significant levels of crime in Fairfax and Montgomery, albeit not comparable to PG's.

"One would think that with Metro accessibility and proximity to Annapolis and Baltimore in addition to DC that Prince George's County SHOULD be booming"

This is a really interesting point. All else being equal, Prince George's County should be a wealthier and more economically stronger county than MoCo. It's more developed (MoCo's population is crammed into only about 2/3 of the county, with the rest protected farmland), located in a near-perfect strategic position between Baltimore and DC, and has more big-ticket amenities, organziations, and federal employment opportunities such as the University of Maryland, Andrews AFB, FedEx Field, the (now-demolished) US Air Arena, National Harbor, Goddard Space Flight Center, Dept. of Ag Research Center, FDA Research Center, the Census Bureau HQ, National Archives, Army Research Lab, Six Flags, and the American Physics Society. In addition large local and national private firms which either have their headquarters or a significant presencse in the county such as SAIC, CSC, Honeywell, UPS (distribution HQ for Metro Area in Laurel/Burtonsville), Radio One (HQ in Lanham), Chevy Chase Bank (Operations HQ in Laurel), Giant (HQ in Landover), and Ritz Camera (HQ in Beltsville).

Another very important advantage is Prince George's County's unique and extreme abundance of transportation options, especially transit. I-95, I-495, MD-295 (Balt-Wash Pkway), MD-50 (technically an interstate), the soon to be completed ICC, and I-295 all go right through the county. The majority of the county is also equidistant between BWI and Dulles. The county also has two commuter rail MARC lines, four Metro branches (more than the NoVa counties combined and more than MoCo's two), and Amtrak's high speed intercity Northeast Corridor trains with frequent service at New Carrollton. Plus, the Purple Line Light Rail system will also serve the county. The transportation access alone should drive the county to economic superiority. Alas, poor planning and executive leadership are in part to blame for the lack of sustained economic development.

Really, the only inherent comparative disadvantage is, as mentioned earlier, that Montgomery borders wealthy NW DC, while PG borders poverty-stricken SE. So this is the reason I'll give why Prince George's is not another Montgomery or Fairfax, at the same time acknowledging the fact that's it still is an great county to live in with a fairly well educated and wealthy population (in general), and a robust economy. I'm not ignoring the negatives, such as the county's really high crime rate which is skewed by crime concentrated in specific areas or it's management issues. I just don't really think it's fair to set the bar high up in the stratosphere.

[North Beach Person]

This wasn't a set-up, ScranBarre just moved to the area a couple months ago and is in the exploring phase of being a newcomer. I tried to steer him to the Bay area but he went with NoVA.

The reality is that Prince George's has always been seen as less desireable than Montgomery, although the attitude has maybe taken on a sharper tone (at least in some minds) as the racial demographic changed. I've been involved in education in PG during the entire time so I've been on the front-line as it were so I can cite personal experience.

[convex20899]

Must work for the school board!

[kjg1963]

"I'm not upset, and I'm not trying to turn this into a race thing -- but it is a race thing, whether people want to admit it or not. People claim the sky is falling in Montgomery County because of a large influx of "illegals", for one thing, and there's a sitgma around PG County for some reason. Hmmm, what makes it so different from the other counties of the area? Oh, I know. A lot of black people! And people use the demographics of the citizens of PG County as blame to justify in why it's not in as good shape as other counties."

I grew up in PG and when I was younger, PG was predominately white. Even then, PG was the ugly step child. The demographics of the county have nothing to do with the problems. Can anyone ever remember when PG was considered "the place to be?" PG has a legacy of mediocrity and its a hard stigma to get over no matter who is in charge.

Also, some need to remember that, interestingly enough, PG still has white people living in it (I happen to be one), so blaming all the ills of the county on one race is amazingly ignorant.

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by kjg1963

The demographics of the county have nothing to do with the problems.

Originally Posted by kjg1963

Also, some need to remember that, interestingly enough, PG still has white people living in it (I happen to be one), so blaming all the ills of the county on one race is amazingly ignorant.

Yet some people still insist on blaming one group of people as the reason why PG is in the shape it's in. The demographics aren't the problem, but there's those that make it one. I come from a place where there's a large population of blacks, with a city that has all kinds of problems. Yet people look to blame "those people", and most whites move out into the suburbs/exurbs, and leave the city to rot. It's been happening for decades. The same thing is happening, or has been happening in PG -- people looking for a scapegoat to justify their ill-formed feelings and perceptions.

I've been in PG since the early 90's, I was always under the impression that PG always had a sizeable black population, but did people back in the 80's and such tend to PG with an extended stick and blame the ills on the rednecks or whites? Were people told to avoid PG at all costs? Was there so much controversy, tension and the like when PG was brought up?

PG may seem so mediocre because other areas are at such an unbelievably high standard. It has to compete with such pristine utopias like Howard, Montgomery, Fairfax -- even Charles, Calvert and Prince William, now. Even Stafford and Spotsylvania are rapidly catching up. God forbid PG not be perfect like Howard, Montgomery & Fairfax and have a couple flaws.