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Old 01-07-2011, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Nuevo México
1,770 posts, read 1,913,061 times
Reputation: 1685
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Vermont is an odd one. Lowest gun control laws of the whole country, openly talks about secession, state constitution was created in a tavern, whitest state in the country..if I were to ask this on the street most would assume it would be a state down south.
Except there is no white state in the South. Vermont is an interesting microcosm, it both attracts me (liberal society) and worries me (lack of diversity).

But Mass. also worries me, it's like when they run out of Kennedys to vote for they don't know what to do, so they'll pick a pretty face Republican in a pickup truck for Senate over a bona-fide liberal. That also sounds pretty Southern. Doesn't instill confidence. Can we expect more of the same? Fortunately places like Nevada and West Virginia didn't follow Massachusetts' lead into the red zone.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:32 PM
 
253 posts, read 315,718 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
Except there is no white state in the South. Vermont is an interesting microcosm, it both attracts me (liberal society) and worries me (lack of diversity).

But Mass. also worries me, it's like when they run out of Kennedys to vote for they don't know what to do, so they'll pick a pretty face Republican in a pickup truck for Senate over a bona-fide liberal. That also sounds pretty Southern. Doesn't instill confidence. Can we expect more of the same? Fortunately places like Nevada and West Virginia didn't follow Massachusetts' lead into the red zone.
It couldn't POSSIBLY have been that Brown was a better candidate than Coakley, could it...
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:36 PM
 
2,412 posts, read 1,685,110 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
Originally Posted by brent s View Post
It couldn't POSSIBLY have been that Brown was a better candidate than Coakley, could it...
Agree, Coakley was/ still is a joke.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Newton, Mass.
2,954 posts, read 7,415,699 times
Reputation: 1379
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
Except there is no white state in the South. Vermont is an interesting microcosm, it both attracts me (liberal society) and worries me (lack of diversity).

But Mass. also worries me, it's like when they run out of Kennedys to vote for they don't know what to do, so they'll pick a pretty face Republican in a pickup truck for Senate over a bona-fide liberal. That also sounds pretty Southern. Doesn't instill confidence. Can we expect more of the same? Fortunately places like Nevada and West Virginia didn't follow Massachusetts' lead into the red zone.
That seems kind of ridiculous. And, frankly, Joe Manchin may be about as far to the right as Scott Brown.

That said, Scott Brown was a perfect storm. It was a special election so, with no other elections to compete with, Brown got tons of attention and funds from out of state conservatives. Then he took the opportunity to put himself everywhere and actually campaign. Coakley didn't get out there with the voters anywhere near as much and was a walking gaffe machine. Throw in a general frustration with the state of the country and there were a lot of people who would normally vote for the Democrat, but voted Brown just to cast a vote against the party in power in Washington. To send a message. Add in the significant number of 2008 Obama voters who were not inspired, by Coakley or by the lack of progress in Washington, and it was enough to boost the Republicans from their standard 35-40% to just over 50%. Personally I think giving the GOP the 41st vote was a disastrous message, but the Dems had enough problems overcoming filibusters with the likes of Lieberman and Ben Nelson, etc.

Brown now has a problem, though. If he acts too much like a Tea Party guy, or even like a standard Mitch McConnell Republican, he'll have problems running in 2012 in a Mass. general election. If he doesn't, the Tea Party people will primary him. They're already angry about some of his recent votes.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:59 PM
 
1,596 posts, read 887,108 times
Reputation: 698
"Except there is no white state in the South. Vermont is an interesting microcosm, it both attracts me (liberal society) and worries me (lack of diversity)."

Well vermont is not going to become diverse mostly because it has some of the highest taxes and regulations. It took nearly four years just to open up one lowes store there. I see nothing wrong with helping small businesses but there's nothing good about preventing commerce. Especially when anyone can order nearly anything online.

New England has no wall against itself from the rest of the country. Gradually blue laws have faded away.

"But Mass. also worries me, it's like when they run out of Kennedys to vote for they don't know what to do, so they'll pick a pretty face Republican in a pickup truck for Senate over a bona-fide liberal. That also sounds pretty Southern. Doesn't instill confidence. Can we expect more of the same? Fortunately places like Nevada and West Virginia didn't follow Massachusetts' lead into the red zone."

Actually Nevada is mixed to say the least. The northern parts are doing much better than the southern. Boom and bust casinos vs gold mining. I wouldn't totally call coakley liberal. Liberals might give things away but only to those that would be able to vote. Saying that "It is not illegal to be illegal" is stupid. Attempting to court people that cannot vote to back you would be like Walmart trying to get support from people that are broke!

The last liberals died out around the 1990's. There's nothing liberal by forcing people to buy health care, there's nothing liberal by supporting wars, there's nothing liberal by ignoring gay marriage, nothing liberal about a war on drugs etc

Political parties are largely tents. There's some unity with some groups but not others. For example environmentalists might not get along with say unionized construction workers in the past but if they agree to LEED certification then it's ok. Religious social conservative would certainly be against gay marriage and abortion but they probably wouldn't mind socialized health care.

The trouble is much of the tents that the left has are fading because there's just not much there. They tend to go for more of the flashy candidates then those with more substance (Kerry instead of Dean, Obama instead of Hillary) and it just doesn't get them far.
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Newark, DE
137 posts, read 118,175 times
Reputation: 50
So, how did Massachusetts fare on the snowstorm this Wednesday? Northern Maryland/Delaware got about 4 inches, southern Maryland nothing but a little freezing rain...but a lot of schools were delayed or closed cause nobody knows how to pre-treat a road around here. :P
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Sacramento CA
1,342 posts, read 740,854 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosling357 View Post
I'm hearing a lot of differences between crazy urban "Boston" and the more rural "hick" areas. We're hoping to find the happy medium, living in a suburban area outside one of the cities that has things to do and more liberal and secular people but is not in the middle of the very dense city. Some of the areas around the Western Mass cities sound nice...of course, it always remains to see where we will find a job...

I, for one, get nervous when people I don't know pretend to be interested in me. Cashiers asking me "how I'm doing" really freak me out.

I feel the same way.. I get the feeling they want to know your business too or why you are in their town just because they themselves don't like your presence, but act friendly to get information or something.

Thats what I think of when I see a stranger talking to me all animated. I just wanna be left alone, get in and get out from a Mass persons point of view and I am still pretty laid back too.. I just don't like to shoot the **** when I want to get in and get out.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Sacramento CA
1,342 posts, read 740,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
"Isn't that everywhere? I have a Masters degree and my husband is working on his...the "labor market" is completely changed. You're right, it's really hard to get by these days on just a high school diploma. That is really anywhere."

Well I think there's a fair number of places of employment that largely implied that they were safe and secure but really weren't. I worked for a retailer related to housing for a number of years. It was busy to the point where if I raised my arm I'd be touching three customers! Trades doesn't pay what it did before. When I was in high school they had us take a tour of the vocational wing. One teacher there said and I'll quote verbatim "You don't need to learn any science, math or a foreign language...all you need to do is...." There's a difference between learning a skill and learning what makes something a skill. The other problem is employers do not teach. There's no incentive as if employers taught people skills they'd be more apt to jump to some other place (I don't consider government compliance to be a skill. An accident free record is generally assumed)

"Is there any state in the US that is consistently churning out amazing students? I know a lot that aren't...Massachusetts and Maryland are doing well, comparatively. For a better education system, we would probably have to leave the country."

Certainly changes can be made. Each year about one million students drop out of high school. No employer in their right mind will hire them. The military is sophisticated now and doesn't take them..neither will walmart or mcdonalds. They end up competing with illegal aliens for work or shining shoes.

The national health care plan was based on the mass plan. I agree that this will sink Romney's plans for 2012. Health care will never be cheap. Mike Dukakis even stated that. Health care is dictated by exercise, environment and diet. Simply having health insurance doesn't automatically make people healthier. All it means is you have a place in line. Look at the example of Kentucky. Roughly 10% of people there have no teeth. When you combine the use of well water (no fluoride), with a high number of distilleries (look at where whiskies are made) and generations of employment in coal plants and it compounds with time.

The government cannot exactly make people healthier. Sure some might argue that the school lunch program helped but that simply made people more dependent (that and it was used to prop up food prices during the great depression that would otherwise be destroyed). Fluoride in drinking water brought down cavities but fluoride also contributes to osteoporosis! Longevity was largely improved due to technologies. Within the next few years the free healthcare pool in Mass will close down. Basically the logic is this. If they are on the free care then they are poor..if they are poor they don't vote anyway so the repercussions won't be much.

"What's the problem with that? I can quote a lot of people who WISH that their immigrant students would leave...if they all stayed, there would be no room for everyone."

If someone wants to study here and uses their own money and energy to obtain a degree then there should be incentives to having them stay. Why not grant green cards to those that obtain Ph.d's? We need more professionals to drive prices down (i.e. doctors). What is it saying in this country if some want to keep people in that do cheap manual labor (mowing lawns, tile work, roofing) but turn away those that have money and legally have jumped though hoops? If we had more people it could help prop up some of the housing market.

"As a young person, I am happy to hear that there aren't too many retirement communities, since all they do is vote republican and ruin employment prospects for young people, from what I can tell."

I fear that the fight in the future will be boomer vs everyone else. In all honesty though it's no longer the counterculture for the youth to vote democrat. It's largely viewed as being a sellout now. The democrats have largely held mass lock stock and barrel for decades. Certainly they fight each other but when things turn bad they play duck and cover. Gradually things have changed. I'm not saying that there aren't good democrats and bad republicans but when a state is dominated by either party it just isn't good.

"Yep, all those wonderful old stores all over the country are disappearing. Sad, isn't it? It's not limited to Massachusetts."

I'm not saying it is but a fair amount of people felt that somehow that this part of the country was more sheltered from things. For example we had blue laws until 1990 that prevented stores from opening on sundays. There were regional chains (bradless, caldors, ames etc) that eventually ended in the mid 90's. First it was the highways that caused people to shift (50's-60s) then it was malls (70s-80) now it's the internet (90s-current). I'm working with small businesses it's not easy but they have to participate in order to survive. This spring I'm hoping to organise stores to at least do some social networking if not websites.
I also don't get how people from places like MA can even enjoy these types of republican infested 55+ type retirement communities. They lack culture, soul, and have some of the biggest boneheads around. I will take a liberal nanny state with more free thinkers over this pile of crap. I live in FL currently and it is bad and even worse in these areas you are describing. No employment, it feels just as boring as the cape. Hell maybe the cape is better even lol, but for MA standards, I thought the cape was really boring like Yarmouth, Hyannisport and so on. Floridas version of this is either = or worse.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:21 AM
 
Location: Sacramento CA
1,342 posts, read 740,854 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
Just when you think Mass. is a liberal stronghold they unleash a Mormon governor as a presidential candidate and elect Scott Brown. Gee, thanks! Dance on Teddy's grave why don't you. You let us down.

Try Vermont if you're looking for a reliably liberal state with good schools and snow removal.

Danny Ainge is a mormon and he loves Boston too... it makes sense MAYBE.. There could very well be a mormon stronghold in the Boston area. I haven't noticed it a ton, but Jehovahs witnesses I sure have.
Also Romney lived in Utah too and he was governor.
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Old 01-15-2011, 05:24 AM
 
Location: Sacramento CA
1,342 posts, read 740,854 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63 View Post
Except there is no white state in the South. Vermont is an interesting microcosm, it both attracts me (liberal society) and worries me (lack of diversity).

But Mass. also worries me, it's like when they run out of Kennedys to vote for they don't know what to do, so they'll pick a pretty face Republican in a pickup truck for Senate over a bona-fide liberal. That also sounds pretty Southern. Doesn't instill confidence. Can we expect more of the same? Fortunately places like Nevada and West Virginia didn't follow Massachusetts' lead into the red zone.
Oregon might even be more black than Vermont and thats one of the whitest states in the nation. Even some notions some even hate italians living there too.

Vermont though, seems easily like the whitest state. Southern states are far more black.
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