Should I avoid Beverly, Danvers, Peabody schools? (Cambridge, Lynn: low income, fit in)
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Hello, I am looking for a North Shore town for our family with young children. Is it wiser to focus on the towns with better performing schools?
Although towns like Beverly, Danvers and Peabody offer better values for a house, I am concerned with the greater low-income/renter population in these towns. Does this have a negative effect on the quality of education and the community?
Your question comes across as somewhat biased. Do you have evidence that suggests that a low-income population or people who rent their homes "have a negative effect on the quality of education"?
Every town in every state has something to offer its residents. Only you can decide if one of these three towns are right for your family based on your budget and your personal values. If you can share a bit more information, we may be able to help point you in the right direction.
For what it's worth, I have lived on the North Shore for 21 years in Swampscott, Lynn, Newbury and Lynnfield.
I live in Beverly, have worked in Beverly, Hamilton-Wenham, and Peabody schools. As both a parent and a teacher, I can see virtually NO difference in the quality of the education in those towns. H-W has a pretty "high" and/or "homogeneous" socio-economic base, and both Beverly and Peabody have a "lower" or "more mixed" socio-economic base. (...Treading very carefully in my terms here...trying not to offend anyone...)
Basically, you get out of it what you put into it. My quick rule of thumb is that elementary schools are pretty good wherever you are. Between MCAS and the MA education frameworks, the standards have become more uniform statewide, and the schools try really hard.
As a parent, I think the bottom falls out of everything in middle school--but it's more related to the issues kids face than the school systems themselves. If your kids can do OK in middle school, they will probably be OK in high school.
At present, I work in a low-income elementary school. We receive Title I funds. Over 40% of the families qualify for free/reduced lunch, and over 40% of the kids do not speak English as their first language at home. Some of them are tri-lingual--with English being their FOURTH language. I LOVE MY KIDS!!!! They work hard, they are SO hungry to learn, and their parents/grownups are engaged and incredibly supportive of the school. ...Bar none, my school has THE most supportive PTO I have ever seen...including my "benchmark," the PTO I put my heart and soul into when my daughter (now in college) was in elementary school. ...We were really good, but this crew is better...in a "low income/renter" neighborhood...don't let preconceptions get the better of you!
So, please--go to the schools. Talk to the staff. Get a "feel" for the town. Beverly has completely renovated all its elementary schools, just opened a new high school, and is about to tackle the middle school. Danvers has similarly ramped up. Peabody has both new buildings and some pretty tired buildings, but is on the same path.
If you are a heads-up parent, are engaged in your kids' education, participate in the PTO, and TAKE THE TIME TO EDUCATE YOURSELF about the curriculum for each grade, the state frameworks, and MCAS, you will find MANY like-minded parents and appreciative teachers wherever you are! ...And your kids will thrive.
From my point of view, the single biggest thing you can do for your kids academically is make sure they are first-rate readers and encourage their curiosity and hunger to learn.
PS: I have also taught at the high school and university levels. I worked for many years at a major university in Cambridge (), where I did undergraduate and graduate advising. My daughter flew through elementary school, and went down in flames in middle and high school. She is incredibly bright ("special needs" at the other end of the scale...different thread entirely), quit high school on the day she could sign herself out, commuted to a local college, blitzed through her first year of college while sixteen/seventeen, took the GED, and was admitted to some of the most competitive schools in the country. I nearly had a breakdown, but she did fine.
The moral of that anecdote is that no matter where you are, be prepared for the totally unexpected. You absolutely cannot assume that a school system is the single variable that will make or break your student's education. The single predictor for my daughter's ultimate success was her voracious reading. In retrospect, that was absolutely key.
You seem like a passionate teacher, one I would love my kids to have!
I got a couple of insights from you. One is that the education program is virtually the same in Hamilton-Whenam and Beverly/Peabody. The second one is that the problems start in middle school, due to issues, other than than school.
I might guess that some of those issues have to do with the things they learn from their classmates. And when a lot of them were raised in a different 'socio-economic' environment, would it be right to suggest that they also received less guidance and a weaker moral/value base from their parents. (I can't quote a research study to support this, just personal experience).
I am sure that there are a lot of supportive parents out there in any school district, and it makes a big difference for the kids, no matter where you are.
I actually believe that parental influence has a far greater impact on the child, than the school.
My concern is: will my kids have to overcome more negative peer influence in more 'mixed' towns, like those, and I think you just answered my question!
I am not saying that all the kids are bad in those towns, I am just saying that I want my kids to have strong values, work hard and have more good influences in their environment.
Your question comes across as somewhat biased. Do you have evidence that suggests that a low-income population or people who rent their homes "have a negative effect on the quality of education"?
Every town in every state has something to offer its residents. Only you can decide if one of these three towns are right for your family based on your budget and your personal values. If you can share a bit more information, we may be able to help point you in the right direction.
For what it's worth, I have lived on the North Shore for 21 years in Swampscott, Lynn, Newbury and Lynnfield.
gf2020: I am sorry if my statement can seem offensive to someone. The evidence I would refer to would be the school rankings. If you have any other evidence to the contrary I would love to hear it!
We were looking for good schools, good lot size, and a good deal. We actually sold our house in Melrose, because the yard wasn't big enough for the kids. We looked everywhere from Swampscott to Boxford.
Beverly, Danvers and Peabody had a lot of houses in our price range (under $400,000). Georgetown had some good deals, but it was further. Swampscott and Marblehead had older, smaller houses with smaller lots.
We actually just got an accepted offer in Lynnfield. I hear the schools are great, and we got our big yard with trees and no neighbors peaking in, like in Melrose.
How about Danvers Trailer Park? Also I saw a ton of apartments, which are usually 'low income' magnets.
My guess is the trailer park is full of retirees.
And how do you come to the conclusion apartments are "low income" magnets? Where do you thing young people live? I'll tell you. They rent apartments. Shocker, I know.
And how do you come to the conclusion apartments are "low income" magnets? Where do you thing young people live? I'll tell you. They rent apartments. Shocker, I know.
We are renting our 'short term' in between houses apartment at Danvers Avalon. I have seen a review calling it a "section 8 ghetto". And some of the people you see here are no different from what you would see at the projects. And this is supposed to be luxury, basketball court, pool, 'cafe'.
As far as I understand it is illegal to refuse section 8 at any rental. They do it only by pricing them out at some places.
I agree, young and older people need apartments - because they are cheaper, same reason why they are low income magnets!
I live in Beverly, have worked in Beverly, Hamilton-Wenham, and Peabody schools. As both a parent and a teacher, I can see virtually NO difference in the quality of the education in those towns. H-W has a pretty "high" and/or "homogeneous" socio-economic base, and both Beverly and Peabody have a "lower" or "more mixed" socio-economic base. (...Treading very carefully in my terms here...trying not to offend anyone...)
Basically, you get out of it what you put into it. My quick rule of thumb is that elementary schools are pretty good wherever you are. Between MCAS and the MA education frameworks, the standards have become more uniform statewide, and the schools try really hard.
As a parent, I think the bottom falls out of everything in middle school--but it's more related to the issues kids face than the school systems themselves. If your kids can do OK in middle school, they will probably be OK in high school.
At present, I work in a low-income elementary school. We receive Title I funds. Over 40% of the families qualify for free/reduced lunch, and over 40% of the kids do not speak English as their first language at home. Some of them are tri-lingual--with English being their FOURTH language. I LOVE MY KIDS!!!! They work hard, they are SO hungry to learn, and their parents/grownups are engaged and incredibly supportive of the school. ...Bar none, my school has THE most supportive PTO I have ever seen...including my "benchmark," the PTO I put my heart and soul into when my daughter (now in college) was in elementary school. ...We were really good, but this crew is better...in a "low income/renter" neighborhood...don't let preconceptions get the better of you!
So, please--go to the schools. Talk to the staff. Get a "feel" for the town. Beverly has completely renovated all its elementary schools, just opened a new high school, and is about to tackle the middle school. Danvers has similarly ramped up. Peabody has both new buildings and some pretty tired buildings, but is on the same path.
If you are a heads-up parent, are engaged in your kids' education, participate in the PTO, and TAKE THE TIME TO EDUCATE YOURSELF about the curriculum for each grade, the state frameworks, and MCAS, you will find MANY like-minded parents and appreciative teachers wherever you are! ...And your kids will thrive.
From my point of view, the single biggest thing you can do for your kids academically is make sure they are first-rate readers and encourage their curiosity and hunger to learn.
PS: I have also taught at the high school and university levels. I worked for many years at a major university in Cambridge (), where I did undergraduate and graduate advising. My daughter flew through elementary school, and went down in flames in middle and high school. She is incredibly bright ("special needs" at the other end of the scale...different thread entirely), quit high school on the day she could sign herself out, commuted to a local college, blitzed through her first year of college while sixteen/seventeen, took the GED, and was admitted to some of the most competitive schools in the country. I nearly had a breakdown, but she did fine.
The moral of that anecdote is that no matter where you are, be prepared for the totally unexpected. You absolutely cannot assume that a school system is the single variable that will make or break your student's education. The single predictor for my daughter's ultimate success was her voracious reading. In retrospect, that was absolutely key.
GREAT POST!
The only thing I will say is if a person can afford to purchase a home to put their child in a better performing district (and I am not talking about a pressure cooker but a top 25% district), they will be better off in the long run. Unfortunately, in poorly performing districts, often times a student who might have some type of LD but is a cooperative, affable child will fall through the cracks. There are so many other "squeaky wheels" that need and/or the attention their problems seem minor in comparison. I've also seen, in poorly performing districts, average students who if they had been given more opportunity would have flourished. I speak from experience. I came from a district where in 4th grade, because of the design of the curriculum, it was already predetermined that my son would not be able to get any higher than pre calculus in high school. My son did not do well in math and was thrown into a math group with students who did not know how to do computation- he did but he did not fit into the next math group either. Fast forward 6 years and my son, the "low" math student, in 2 years has breezed through Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II and is slated to take Math Theory and Pre-Calculus next year. He LOVES math and teachers actually speak to him about a career in a related field. It all turned around in 1 year, through a dedicated teacher who saw his potential and a school system that understood that developmentally, not all kids were in the same place but they did have the potential to get there.
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), where I did undergraduate and graduate advising. My daughter flew through elementary school, and went down in flames in middle and high school. She is incredibly bright ("special needs" at the other end of the scale...different thread entirely), quit high school on the day she could sign herself out, commuted to a local college, blitzed through her first year of college while sixteen/seventeen, took the GED, and was admitted to some of the most competitive schools in the country. I nearly had a breakdown, but she did fine.
