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I can't stand the summers in eastern Massachusetts. Way too humid and more so every year, I think.
I' transplanted here by choice at age 20, and have come and gone three times since. I do like the intellectual history- abolishinists, Thoreau and Emerson, Walden Pond, the Alcotts. I like the general high level of education (and, one hopes, smarts accordingly) in the urban area, as there are some 250,000 college students, and many stay and live after school.
I liked the overall plainness and relatively little consumerism and snottiness downtown except for Newbury St., although that has changed a lot in the last 20 years, it's still nothing like the materialism in other expensive areas.
I'd hesitate to live elsewhere because of the intellectual climate, and the relative lack of extreme religion.
and may rolls around and we have freak snow storms. you make mass sound like a magical place. i'm not putting it down it's just i read your description and think wow what a wonderful place but we both know it's not as wonderful as your post.
I stated my reasons why I like the four seasons! I'm sorry you're so unhappy there. :-(
I'm with you. I've lived in California for too long, and I'm just ready to get away. I'm living in a beautiful area right now up on the hills near the ocean, but I'm tired of the place. I'm ready for a change. Don't worry about the negative comments. You'll always find people everywhere who don't like a place for one reason or another. But for you and me it's a huge change and we need a change! They have really good pizza in Mass too!
I love having four real seasons. Summer is wonderful but just when it starts to wear on you, guess what? It's autumn. I love the fall. The days slowly get shorter. You wake up in the morning and there is frost on the lawn! Everywhere, pumpkin stands. The leaves begin to change and everything takes your breath away. Then the world goes gray. You wait for that first snow fall. It comes at twilight. You can see the snow falling in the moonlight, underneath the streetlights. You go to bed and when you wake up the world is a magic place, everywhere is covered with fresh fallen, white snow. You can see the footprints of deer in the snow. Of course, winter can be long and gray. The cold gets you down in February and March. Everyone looks pale and puts on weight, but then it's April and suddenly tulips are pushing up out of the ground. You can see those first green buds on the trees -- the leaves are growing back! And it all begins again.
greeny
Oh my god. You took the words right out of my mouth. How did you get inside my head Greenie? Now I really can't wait to get there. S***w the naysayers. I love Massachusetts!
Puffle, I think you're right to use love and hate in the same phrase when referring to MA. Except that I think it's not that people either love or hate MA, but more that a lot of people both love it and hate it. Especially in the Boston area, MA reminds me of the old verse about the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead: When she was good she was very, very good. When she was bad she was horrid. In the same way, many of Boston's good features are great, while many of the negatives are exceedingly negative.
I don't quite agree with NChome that Boston has as many urban amenities as larger cities, or that you get the amenities with "none" of the disadvantages. However, for many people's preferences, Boston does strike a very good balance between the variety of cultural and recreational opportunities and the degree of urban disadvantage you put up with as the price to enjoy the amenities. Some of the advantages: a world-class art museum; a first-rate science museum; renowned orchestras that perform in one of the world's top concert halls; an aquarium right on the waterfront with a view of the harbor; attractive water views from various points in the city; passionate sports fans who follow teams with long, storied histories; quaint neighborhoods with history on every corner. Some of the disadvantages: ridiculously high cost of housing; traffic so backed up, often even in the middle of the day, that it makes just getting around a truly stressful experience; weather which I don't think is as awful as some people say, but is still far from ideal; aloof and hard-nosed people (collectively--like anywhere else, you'll encounter all kinds of individuals, but they do seem to add up to an unfriendly bunch on the whole).
Some features are both positive and negative: Being an old city by American standards, Boston has many older neighborhoods. Age gives some neighborhoods a look of classic elegance, while other sections are just old and run down. In the same sort of positive/negative intertwining, the density of urban amenities packed into a relatively small central-city area which gives Boston its vibrant feel also causes lots of people to pack into one small area, leading to heavy traffic congestion.
Outside of Boston, the extremes continue. The natural landscape is gorgeous, and there is just about any kind of outdoor recreation you could want. Also, the cost of living is decidedly lower than it is in the Boston metro area. On the other hand, many towns are old and run down and economically depressed.
Politics can also lead to extreme feelings. It's pretty much a given that if you're on the conservative side you will loathe the politics in MA. If you lean more to the left, and take a positive view of the socio-political policies, you still have to pay a good chunk of your income in taxes and fees that go to support a broken-down old network of patronage and cronyism, rather than being used efficiently to provide those in need with social services.
So, it basically comes down to a situation where there is a lot to really recommend MA, but the cost of enjoying all these advantages is quite high as well. That's why a lot of people here seem to both love AND hate MA.
MA doesn't have 4 seasons. States like Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky... they have 4 nice, almost equally divided seasons. 5 months of winter, 3 months of mud and rain, 2 months of summer and 2 months of fall is what you get in MA. Spring is non-existent and the most miserable time of the year in my opinion in MA because you are coming off a hard winter hoping for better weather and it doesn't show up until June.
I agree with most of this, although being located in New England I consider the middle atlantic states and southern states to have closer to 3 seasons. They have more of a spring, summer, and fall in my opinion. I wouldn't call their winter anything like a winter in New England. I guess it is all how one prefers or compares it.
I really don't like the cold and find from November to April (what i consider winter here) just too long. Summer is closer to 2 or 3 months max. Fall is nice in September and October, but by November it can get really cold and you know you won't see nice weather until probably May. Even in May though, espcecially the last few, it has been quite cold.
To me the summer is simply too short here. I love doing many outdoor things, and it just seems there isn't enough time in the summer here. Fall is great for football, especially college and the pats. I just prefer the outside things in the summer to what you can do for outside things in the winter. Other than football, i think the winter gets boring and depressing. I end up waiting all winter until i can plan things to do in the summer.
One thing that bothers me is lots of people here complain about the weather every season. In the fall it is too windy, winter is too cold and/or snowy, spring is too rainy, and summer is too humid/hot. I guess the problem with New England weather is you never get a chance to completely get acclimated. By the time you are used to one season it is pretty much over. For some reason it appears to be New Englanders complain more than others about things. I know this is general, but for some reason many New Englanders are never completely happy.
The first snow storm is actually magical, it really is very pretty. Then the snowplows and the sanders come out and they tear up the length of your lawn and throw dirt and salt all over the place and turn it into nothing more than a disgusting slushy mess. Of course we can't do without all of that but it quickly turns a pretty picture into an awful mess.
The roads in most towns are terrible, not just because of traffic but they are bumpy and whenever they decide to start working on something, they never seem to actually finish the job. There are drains and manhole covers and some of the bumps you hit on your typical street here in MA you swear that your car won't make it another ten feet after the fact. Even on the major highways, most of the bridges have huge bumps that you go over when getting on and off the crossing.
I love Spring if it's not raining which doesn't seem to be the norm here the past few Springs. If you do happen to have a decent Spring, it is absolutely fantastic! Seeing everything come back to life after a long winter feels so good to my soul. Seeing the tree's bud and the flowers break ground and even watching the street cleaner picking up all the sand is so refreshing! LOL!
I have lived in MA for 42 out of my 43 years. I have been fortunate enough to travel A LOT within the United States and I have seen a lot of different places. On the surface, I love the fact that we can get to the ocean or the mountains but there are just waaaaaaay too many people here now. I see threads on this site about MA people being snobs but the natives couldn't be any more friendly.
There was a time in the suburbs were you could drive down just about any street in town and be able to name who lives in every house without having to read the mailbox out front. No one was worried about their children being abducted and everyone watched everyone elses kid's. Our schools were able to educate us well and they did. If you acted up in school, you knew there would be hell to pay when you got home because teachers were on a first name basis with EVERY parent.
I love the old Massachusetts and there is no way I would have EVER wanted to move from here. Now, it is a completely different story and the people that were attracted to this area came to this area because of what it offered. Unfortunately, the first thing they did when they got here was want to change it. They loved the country setting, but then complained that the farms smelled like animals. It is just far too populated here now and speaking as a native, I would give anything to see it go back to the way it once was.
For someone moving here that never had the chance to know what it used to be like, I have no idea what the attraction to here would be. I'm not saying there wouldn't be an attraction, I just personally don't know what it would be.
Where would I like to live? The western side of South Dakota appeals to me very much. I have been to the Black Hills a few times and it reminds me very much of old suburban Massachusetts. Not so much the small downtown area's but the people's attitude's are very similiar. They appear to be working class people with good hearts. Those are my kind of people! They seem to mind their own business and aren't the slightest bit interested in the whole keeping up with the Jonses scene. Money to me really doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot, although I'm not exactly poor either so maybe that is why.
It seems everything here is MA is geared to the mighty dollar, I am so sick of it! You know if you don't work your butt off all the time that it wouldn't take long before you reached financial hardship. There are people here with money but with the lifestyle that most people are living here, it wouldn't take long to lose it all if you were to have a hardship.
If I lived in CA and it wasn't Northern CA, I would want out of there. I really love the Grass Valley/Nevada City area in CA and most of Northern CA is really, really nice, especially when comparing it to Massachusetts.
The biggest and really only REAL negative about MA for me is the population. If half the people left, it would feel like home.
as usual ogre and leaving ma do great posts rep for you both
wheelz
my wife born and bred massachusetts to says the same how the state has changed for the worse
lived in various countries and states including massachsetts
have to say that massachsetts is one of the worst though it has good points but those you can find in other cities except the history
you weigh up the pro's and cons and the cons are a great deal more. I'm not going to go into the special interests, extreme politics, roads, taxes wasted, snobbery and elitistism the list goes on and on.
I hear about the seasons a lot well guess what other states have it too, I've been to the smokies , blue mountains, etc in the fall and I'd say that beats masachusetts or just as good
spring that last for two weeks if that. winters are much longer and for the leaves you have a window of what 2 weeks then you know there's cold , snow, dirt salt, plughs, SUV's going fast for the next half a year, depressing foresight
I will say this there is a reason why massachusetts why people are moving out more than any state in the country for the last few years or why the city lost nearly 6,000 people last year. I tmakes it even more remarkable that the unemloyment rate is higher than the national average too
Think of it this way , you're looking to buy a house you go driving around yet there's much more for sale signs than usual , you would ask why
same situation here
visiting a place and living are two entirely different things.
you have to live in a place for at least a couple of years to get a feel then you can say if you like it or not but to do buisness trips, vacation trips, stay for a couple of months with friends is not giving you the bigger picture
I wish you all the best for the future though
Last edited by remember-voltaire; 08-08-2007 at 12:05 AM..
There was a time in the suburbs were you could drive down just about any street in town and be able to name who lives in every house without having to read the mailbox out front. No one was worried about their children being abducted and everyone watched everyone elses kid's. Our schools were able to educate us well and they did. If you acted up in school, you knew there would be hell to pay when you got home because teachers were on a first name basis with EVERY parent.
I've lived in mass my whole life (35 years) and this is SO TRUE!!!! I grew up in Lowell and remember when I was 12 spending the afternoon downton (about 4 miles from home) for the first time with just friends. Walking to the park to play softball or 4 squares or walking home at 10:00 at night when i was in high school. My parents would send us to the park for the day with just friends or we (friends and I) would go off for the afternoon on a bike ride adventure (sometimes ending up in Pelham) and then return home for supper. My old neighborhood has changed but I can still drive around and point out where so and so lives or lived or there parents still live there. Going to catholic school if you acted up the nuns thought nothing of either sticking you in the corner (even in the 8th grade) or smacking you on the butt in front of everyone.
Someone said it in an earlier post it's not that you either love or hate mass it's both.
Do most of the people that live in Massachusetts dislike it (rather not use the word hate) and only stay for work and family, or too uneasy about leaving in general? Or is it simply one extreme or the other??? I am working my *** off to get there while I read so much negativety from those that have been living there. I currently live in California and if you have read the threads there you will see the love it or hate it attitude...not much of a grey area. But in my opinion, as a life long Ca. native, California pales in comparison to the beauty of New England and the genuine quality of the people who live there, good or bad. You know what you are getting. Am I just being naive here?
Puffle,
I am a die hard New Englander type. But fortunately I think I can be at least somewhat objective. I lived in the South(Atlanta) for 7 years and absolutely missed Massachusetts and New England every day. Not because we're perfect- we're not. We're old, dirty, quirky, not as friendly as other people, and just plain its not always an easy life here. But we have alot of great things going for us. I tend to agree with the concept that you know what youre getting and you know where you stand here.
We're actually one of the most solid real estate markets in the country at the moment. Most Mass folks have owned their house along time, multiple generations even. We have a TON of equity compared to the growth states.... So we're for the most part not worried if the house we paid 20k for 30 years ago gives back 50k today... after all it often is still worth 400-500k in the current market. People call us racist, by and large we're not. If anything we're classist- we expect people to be smart and have a desire to succeed. Even if that's a little unrealistic every society has its idealism. So we'll also defend our idea of social safety net. But mean people are everywhere.
We're actually pretty darn committed to the original American ideals, after all- we contributed quite a bit to that and take our place in history quite seriously. I'm a straight man proud of my state's stand on gay marriage. We believe in equality for all. We have several cities that are notoriously gay. Provincetown, Northampton. We like to go there for dinner and to see something different. Some people say we're segregated. We're not. We have ethnic neighborhoods. This isnt forced on anyone, but alot of people like to be with their own kind, especially when they are recent immigrants. Wouldnt you if you up and moved to another country? Maybe wanna live in Americatown, before you ventured out into your new land? Besides... it makes for great cultural experience for the rest of us. I know where to go for REAL Italian, Chinese, Polish, Russian, Irish, or Viet Namese food and culture.
And quite frankly I think Boston is kicking ass at the moment. We arent a growth state, we're a Renaiissance state. All across the region our old run down houses and towns are being transformed and renovated into new, charming, vibrant places.... with all that new equity we've gained. We're staring to change our tune on new development, though it has to be on our terms. Our medical and biotech sectors are thriving. Our manufacturing is starting to uptick, and all of our finance(especially private equity) is BOOMING.
Tourism is doing pretty well, and our soon to be built casinos will likely help that out quite a bit.
Yes its expensive. But I live in a state, by the grace of God, where my mother had a stroke and the state paid the entire medical bill. Literally.... she walked away alive and healthy and not burdened by debt. I thank God and will be greatful to the Commonwealth til the last breathe be gone. I live in a state with a massive road infrastructure, doesnt come cheap ya know.... we're only about 6 million people. We are a state committed to the environment, equality, and a just foreign policy.
And... We have 5 really great friends. Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine. We are indeed a country within a country.
We have so much interstate cooperation in New England. We may soon even give eachother in state rates on education, merge medical systems...
The coming years will be interesting. While the states that grew to fast suffer with the need for huge infrastructural developments and therefore are forced to raise taxes, we'll be cutting taxes. And that means new business and new jobs. New England, even if not Mass, is exactly where I wanna be. But in all honesty... Maine has really captured my soul recently. And its sooo much cheaper, has some great growth pockets and BIG potential. Such a beautiful natural beauty. Very much an entrepreneur's kind of place.... Oh man. Dont even get me started on Maine.
Cheers!
Last edited by starzfalldown; 08-08-2007 at 02:59 PM..
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Love it AND hate it
I am working my *** off to get there while I read so much negativety from those that have been living there. I currently live in California and if you have read the threads there you will see the love it or hate it attitude...not much of a grey area. But in my opinion, as a life long Ca. native, California pales in comparison to the beauty of New England and the genuine quality of the people who live there, good or bad. You know what you are getting. Am I just being naive here?
