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Unread 08-23-2012, 10:34 AM
 
1,490 posts, read 2,131,574 times
Reputation: 1155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
Touchy, touchy, touchy...

No need to be defensive about your school of choice. But UMass does not have a national reputation and is only viewed as a "good school" by people that live in Mass or the surrounding area. It's not a bad school, and you can go there, get a good education, and graduate and earn a great living. But unless you stay in Mass, people are going to shrug when you say "I went to UMass."

People go to the ivies not necessarily because they're going to learn something different than anyone else in the same field of study. Rather, they will be exposed to a completely different circle - people who will become moves and shakers in the future in law, politics, and business. Being surrounded by the silver spoon set, a group of people that maybe have known since they were kids what they were going to do with their lives and how they were going to get there, can make a huge difference in your life. It's almost like mentoring - you have people that already know how to succeed, and can show you the way.

That environment is less likely to occur at UMass (or Pitt, or Temple, or Ole Miss, or wherever) than it would at an Ivy, or UVa, or Vanderbilt, or Duke, etc.

Please don't bother with "I knew a guy from Devry that started a company and became a millionaire" stories...
I don't think anyone is getting sensitive. I think many of us are just grounded in reality. Can we bother with the "I knew a guy who went to Princeton and is working at a local lumber yard stories? Or the one who went to Georgetown and is working in a mail room. Or I knew a kid who went to BC and is an oxy addict?"

Self motivators go to a variety of schools- some even drop out and become billionaires. Attending an elite college and rubbing elbows with silver spoon kids will only get you so far. If you are doing it, in hopes of becoming one of them, you will be out of luck. Poseurs are easily identified. I saw this happen with a local kid. Long story short, brilliant kid, top tier college, thought by looking the part and being in the midst of it, he would fit in. A year of college and a weekend in Nantucket with some of his fancy "friends" showed him otherwise. This kid completely changed his values and readjusted his moral compass to fit in. What he found was they weren't such good friends when they got into their element. This kid be do well but he's realized he has to blaze his own trail. He's not going to get there by hopping onto someone else's coattails and trying to pretend he is something he isn't. He's taking a very different path and will succeed because he is doing it on his own.

Furthermore, the tide is changing and we are seeing a backlash. Anyone with the slightest bit of business acumen realizes that going deep into debt, for a "designer" liberal arts education is a bad investment. For too long, the emotions evoked by the panache of a prestigious college have lead people to make poor decisions about education. College is a business decision. If your child can get into a great school and get a degree in something that they can build a life with, and the investment is compensatory with the future financial reward then it's a good choice. A BA in basketweaving from a prestigious college is only worth the paper it's written on.

Many kids today (and some parents) want to still think that it's all about the "labels". Smart people are looking past the labels to value and values. Many of highly educated, connected people have perpetrated crimes against investors and have been voted into office and have been found to be morally and ethically corrupt. Really smart people aren't blinded by connections and an impressive educational resume. Some are- Bernie Madoff was proof of that.

Bottom line, Top tier is not for everyone and it is no longer the golden ticket it once was. It's not settling, it's reality. The 90's and early 2000's have to teach us something about overextending ourselves and delayed gratification. There is nothing wrong with working your way up because truth be told, everyone, even kids who go to elite schools are finding that they have to work their way up. Many also have to learn how to work collaboratively and as a subordinate- something their upbringing and education did not prepare them for.


This is a great story about one such elite student. The original story was printed in 2007 and this is a follow up. Enjoy! A young dynamo hits turbulence - The Boston Globe
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Unread 08-23-2012, 06:22 PM
 
647 posts, read 521,448 times
Reputation: 583
Back on topic...


I have heard that the Country Day School of the Holy Union in Groton is a solid feeder for local prep schools.

Country Day School of the Holy Union Groton

I am not very familiar with Eastern, MA but I am sure this is the case with other INDEPENDENT (not parish) catholic and non denominational schools in the area.


I grew up in Western, MA and we had Academy Hill School and the Grammar School were feeders for MacDuffie, Williston Northampton School, Suffield Academy, Loomis, and Wilbraham & Monson Academy.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 06:35 PM
 
647 posts, read 521,448 times
Reputation: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by gf2020 View Post
Most of the students at Phillips Andover came from local Massachusetts public school systems. Additionally, I would look at the actual graduation statistics of PA before calling it a "feeder" school for Ivy League universities, that's a bit of a generalization.
Phillips Academy Andover - Andover, Massachusetts/MA - Boarding School Profile | Boarding School Review


There are few schools in the world that could boast those matriculation stats.
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Unread 08-23-2012, 09:51 PM
 
2,145 posts, read 1,438,824 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerclaws View Post
Why don't you provide the facts and enlighten the board members while you are at it?
^This
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Unread 08-24-2012, 06:28 AM
 
3,328 posts, read 2,187,444 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirk98 View Post
Could not agree more. We are rapidly approaching the threshold where (from dollar and cent side) a college degree may cost more than one's earning potential over (for example) a 10 year span



Could not disagree more. What most folks (who did NOT get a liberal arts degree) think is that you are 'wasting your time' learning things that 'dont pertain' to your future profession. I want to know, at age 19/20 (when most folks in an undergraduate program choose a major/minor), how many of us knew EXACTLY how their future career would look? And seriously... Who needs a survey course on Shakespeare?

A true liberal arts program makes for a MUCH more 'well rounded' individual. At my alma mater, I was infuriated that, in my Computer Science courses, there were no 'Java Programming' or 'SQL 101' courses. Instead, you had to teach YOURSELF Java in your Data Structures course, for example.

In a nut shell-- a liberal arts degree teaches you how to THINK.

At work, I am amazed at how many people I interview (when we have a position on my team)who are REALLY good at one *very* technical skill, but can not communicate to save their lives. And, boy! Dont bother asking them to learn something outside of that skill set.

When I went to school a Liberal Arts degree was for kids that were slackers.....didn't want to get a degree in anything that was hard (accounting for example).
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Unread 08-24-2012, 06:31 AM
 
3,328 posts, read 2,187,444 times
Reputation: 2795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachcomber4 View Post

Furthermore, the tide is changing and we are seeing a backlash. Anyone with the slightest bit of business acumen realizes that going deep into debt, for a "designer" liberal arts education is a bad investment. For too long, the emotions evoked by the panache of a prestigious college have lead people to make poor decisions about education. College is a business decision. If your child can get into a great school and get a degree in something that they can build a life with, and the investment is compensatory with the future financial reward then it's a good choice. A BA in basketweaving from a prestigious college is only worth the paper it's written on.

Many kids today (and some parents) want to still think that it's all about the "labels". Smart people are looking past the labels to value and values. Many of highly educated, connected people have perpetrated crimes against investors and have been voted into office and have been found to be morally and ethically corrupt. Really smart people aren't blinded by connections and an impressive educational resume. Some are- Bernie Madoff was proof of that.

Bottom line, Top tier is not for everyone and it is no longer the golden ticket it once was. It's not settling, it's reality. The 90's and early 2000's have to teach us something about overextending ourselves and delayed gratification. There is nothing wrong with working your way up because truth be told, everyone, even kids who go to elite schools are finding that they have to work their way up. Many also have to learn how to work collaboratively and as a subordinate- something their upbringing and education did not prepare them for.


This is a great story about one such elite student. The original story was printed in 2007 and this is a follow up. Enjoy! A young dynamo hits turbulence - The Boston Globe

I heard an interesting way to gauge the cost of your education vs. your potential job salary: Never borrow more than one year's salary for your education. So if you are a teacher expecting to make 50K a year then that should be your limit in loans whereas a Dr. could take 200K in loans and also be in good shape. Now if a teacher took 200K in loans then they would be in trouble!
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Unread 08-24-2012, 06:34 AM
 
3,328 posts, read 2,187,444 times
Reputation: 2795
I have seen the education thing go both ways in my own family. I had a cousin go to Brooks, then to an Ivy league school and landed a fantastic job. I had another cousin go to a NH prep school and barely finished a very mediocre college in the south, followed by mall jobs. Both cases several hundred thousand dollars were spent on education, in one scenario it worked out, the other would have been a better case for public school, state college and bank the tuition savings.

So I guess the moral of the story is that it all depends on the individual!
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Unread 08-24-2012, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Beverly, Mass
891 posts, read 651,971 times
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Look at George W. - he found a good job, thanks to daddy, but it didn't make him more intelligent.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 03:15 PM
 
3,174 posts, read 2,258,668 times
Reputation: 1421
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerclaws View Post
Why don't you provide the facts and enlighten the board members while you are at it?
Because, I am not making any claims or assertions. It's not my job to provide facts to prove or disprove others' opinions. This site is City-Data, not City-Opinion, where the latter could be based on who-knows-what relevant information.
But if you would like to start providing facts to support the others' assertions, I will gladly read them and perhaps even chip in.
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Unread 08-24-2012, 10:13 PM
 
2,145 posts, read 1,438,824 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Because, I am not making any claims or assertions. It's not my job to provide facts to prove or disprove others' opinions. This site is City-Data, not City-Opinion, where the latter could be based on who-knows-what relevant information.
But if you would like to start providing facts to support the others' assertions, I will gladly read them and perhaps even chip in.
So then are the following facts/claims, or are they opinions?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Umm.... try again... we had students from all over the country, and the WORLD coming to PA Andover... it IS a feeder school (depending on what field of study you choose). Don't ask me how I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post

Look at the number of famous people that graduated from there... High-school testing scores sure aren't the gold standard for the success of an individual... it is the self-motivation and drive of the person that accomplishes success. Many of the students passed out of their first year of college (at really hard schools), due to their education at PA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
Try some schools in Dorchester, Holyoke, Worcester, Mattapan or Roxbury, and see how far you get.

Geez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
(To be fair, numerous top middle schools in MA are feeder schools to PA. Andover being one of them).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
I would think that parents would want to surround their children with the doers and thinkers of the next generation, and provide a full college learning experience. YMMV
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
The students at these schools are exposed to a very wide variety of topics, helping them to choose a career path that is both marketable, and contributes to society. Go down to the Media Lab in Cambridge.... the limits of thought, invention and creativity are only limited by the imagination of the student. (Though one of my friends went to Amherst, and the keg parties were good, and I guess that is part of the college experience too).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
It is marginal. It is ranked 94th (so at least in the top 100)
Fairly contradicting "fact" I would say?

As for me I was simply responding to this "claim" which I thought was pretty "out there" and certainly not backed up by any facts (it is an "opinion"):

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther
I don't blame them for being dismayed. You had the best preparation possible, but went to an OK college. Some might see that as a waste.
So in responding to this post, is it "my job to provide facts to prove or disprove others' opinions?"

You have me a little confused here.
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