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Old 12-12-2012, 07:09 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,664 posts, read 38,281,376 times
Reputation: 17625

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I was trying to be polite and not argue against Miu's previous post against me for some imaginary "Asiatown". But it seems that 9162's comment above has really stole the show on this topic. While Miu browbeats new Chinese immigrants for wanting to move to Quincy in droves (for a variety of economic, social and cultural reasons), it seems that, even with Miu's "flawless" English and other brave and proud efforts at assimilation, someone like 9162 will still consider her like "any other Asian". So I guess 9162 thinks all Asians look the same, even those with "flawless English"! So much for all that hard work at assimilation!
Oh please stop with your nonsense!!!

First of all, Asians only make up 6% of the general US population. And yes, I always do fine in any situation with people of other races. I probably get along better with non-Asians that Asian Americans. Especially with Chinese American men who still claim first allegiance to China... but that's a whole other thread topic.

And I DO understand why in Quincy, there are non-Asians that object to the creation of a new Asiatown in their town. And if Asians were trying to make an Asiatown in the North End, they would be unwelcome also. It's not about assimilation. Making a Asiatown is them refusing to integrate gracefully into the rest of society. Making an Asiatown is Asians refusing to mingle with other cultures and races.

And that's why I think that Asian Americans should avoid living in clusters with other Asian Americans. And if they need Asian groceries, then visit one of the number Asian markets in the metro Boston area. But please don't just cluster together and form an Asian American neighborhood.

Personally, and as an Asian American, I don't want tons of Asians moving into the blocks around my home in Newton, especially if they are not going to be speaking English. And I don't want a bunch of Asian markets popping up near me either. The Super 88 Market in Allston is close enough for me to shop at if I need Asian groceries.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:19 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,664 posts, read 38,281,376 times
Reputation: 17625
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamma19 View Post
And your imaginary scenario is supposed to be some kind of justification how? Most Asian countries are racially homogenous. The US is a country of immigrants and multiple cultures. Not to mention that most white people who expatriate to Asian countries are usually treated like celebrities and sometimes better than the locals!

And you either missed or didn't bother to consider the part where I mentioned that I'm born and raised here buddy. I'm NOT an immigrant, I'm an American. So who's job did I steal, and whom did I displace?
From my own experiences growing up in Concord and living in Cambridge and Newton, you would be welcomed working and living anywhere in the entire state of Massachusetts. But the only resistance would be in a situation like in Quincy where there is a growing new Asiatown where there are many Asians that don't speak English well. So if you were to move to a white neighbor, it honestly wouldn't be any big deal. But if moved to Quincy and in the immediate area of a predominately Asian neighbor, most likely there would be resentment from longtime white residents.

So to summarize, individually, you are welcome anywhere in Massachusetts.

And BTW the same negativity would be felt towards any group bringing in a different non-English speaking culture, nationality or religion into a community which used to be predominately white and English speaking.
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:27 PM
 
18,879 posts, read 14,028,785 times
Reputation: 9122
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Oh please stop with your nonsense!!!

First of all, Asians only make up 6% of the general US population. And yes, I always do fine in any situation with people of other races. I probably get along better with non-Asians that Asian Americans. Especially with Chinese American men who still claim first allegiance to China... but that's a whole other thread topic.

And I DO understand why in Quincy, there are non-Asians that object to the creation of a new Asiatown in their town. And if Asians were trying to make an Asiatown in the North End, they would be unwelcome also. It's not about assimilation. Making a Asiatown is them refusing to integrate gracefully into the rest of society. Making an Asiatown is Asians refusing to mingle with other cultures and races.

And that's why I think that Asian Americans should avoid living in clusters with other Asian Americans. And if they need Asian groceries, then visit one of the number Asian markets in the metro Boston area. But please don't just cluster together and form an Asian American neighborhood.

Personally, and as an Asian American, I don't want tons of Asians moving into the blocks around my home in Newton, especially if they are not going to be speaking English. And I don't want a bunch of Asian markets popping up near me either. The Super 88 Market in Allston is close enough for me to shop at if I need Asian groceries.
Spoken like a true American!
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:36 PM
 
5,637 posts, read 4,575,585 times
Reputation: 7907
Miu, I am not fighting with you. You are entitled to your views. I am simply pointing out 9126's position that, regardless of whether you were born here in the US or a recent immigrant, or whether you speak "flawless English" or Chinglish, or dress a certain way or not, or still hold allegiance to China or not, you will still be "like any other Asians". Hence, your very heroic effort at assimilation really doesn't amount to much, at least in 9126's universe. I guess you will never be good enough.

For people like 9126, do you think any amount of your prescribed assimilation could suffice? My point, going back to the OP's question, is that, at least in Quincy, there are still far too many "uneducated people" like 9126 who has this view. Even just one Asian, with the most "flawless English" would still be TOO many for Quincy!

By the way, Miu, I lived and went to school in that beautiful campus on Lowell road for 4 years. I know Concord very well. It's a highly educated and affluent town. I used to be on the running and rowing teams of this little boarding school, and I still remember the beauatiful fall colors all around me as we ran through the country roads and the acres of woods. I do have to tell you that, for the most part, the people of Concord accept diversity because they are secure in their dominant social and economic positions. They see an Asain family in their midst as a quaint oddity mixed with a touch of exotic diversity that helps to burnish their credential as an "enlightened" town. I might even argue that it's easy for one to be accepting in that situation. The real test for acceptance is in Quincy's case. Clearly, 9126 attests to my observation with his massive and epic fail in this regard.

As a quick FYI, the last I checked, Quincy only has one Kamman and a much smaller Quan Dat Vietnamese grocer...for a total of two Asian grocery stores. It has one Shaws, two Stop & Shop and one Hannaford supermarket serving the city (that's four major "American" supermarkets!). The Asians are not overrunning the place.

Last edited by pennyone; 12-12-2012 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
73 posts, read 205,678 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9162 View Post
Buddy, if my scenario is so imaginary, why are you experiencing racism? And who really cares if you were born here?? You don't look any different from any other Asian. Sorry, but your image of America, is not the melting pot you, and some other politically correct people insist on believing in. This country was a former colony of England. As a matter of fact our entire culture came from England! Our judicial system, our legislative/government, our education and our democracy all came from England. And most other immigrants were almost exclusively Western European. It wasn't until LBJ abolished the National Origins act did we even allow a lot of non-Western Europeans intoourcountry.
To address the first bolded statement, how does this justify the racism? There's a big, BIG difference between second plus generation Asian Americans and Asian immigrants (not that the immigrants should be treated as any less). I care that I was born here. I am an American, first and foremost. But it seems that to people with your views, I cannot ever be a "real" American, and will have my personal characteristics, values, allegiance, and motives called into question simply because of how I physically appear.

And for the second statement, the English took the land by force from the various Native American tribes living here at the time. That's why I find your previous example so ironic and outlandish--you say that the whites in Quincy resent/fear the Asians moving in in droves and displacing the locals, taking jobs, etc. but yet it was okay for the English to do the exact same thing and worse to the Natives?

As far as culture goes, America is a mix of cultures, not just Anglo-Saxon. Just look at the Cajun/Creole influences in parts of the South, the Mexican/Latin influences in the Southwest, and various others, in all facets of culture such as food, language (including English with regional dialects), clothing, architecture, etc.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:09 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,664 posts, read 38,281,376 times
Reputation: 17625
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Miu, I am not fighting with you. You are entitled to your views. I am simply pointing out 9126's position that, regardless of whether you were born here in the US or a recent immigrant, or whether you speak "flawless English" or Chinglish, or dress a certain way or not, or still hold allegiance to China or not, you will still be "like any other Asians". Hence, your very heroic effort at assimilation really doesn't amount to much, at least in 9126's universe. I guess you will never be good enough.
Actually not. On my own, I am completely assimilated. And many times, new contacts have asked me if I was native American or Hawaiian. And it's because of my mannerisms. I dress, move and speak unlike any Asians outside my family. In Chinatown, I stand out as not blending in with "my people".

And as an Asian woman, unlike others of "my kind", I take my driving skills seriously and have competed in autocross events. I am even mechanically savvy about my cars. I am expert on American and European antiques.

Anyway, my point has been that individually and in small numbers, people of other nationalities, cultures and religions have an easy welcome in any Massachusetts community or workplace. But outside of Chinatown, if we become the new majority in these situations, the regular locals of course would be taken aback as they would be if faced with a sudden and heavy influx of any differing nationality or race. Sudden major changes are never easily accepted by most.

As to Quincy, in all honesty, I never pass through there. I am not much of a South Shore person, so visiting that area is just not in my normal path of travel. However, I know many Asian friends and co-workers who live there, and only one or two living in other Massachusetts towns. And it does have a reputation for having an Asian center of commerce. So there is definitely a significant amount of Asians living and doing business in Quincy and much moreso than the majority of towns in Massachusetts. So I don't think that a growing Asiatown in Quincy is in anyone's imagination.
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:58 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,664 posts, read 38,281,376 times
Reputation: 17625
Another thing that bothers me about pennyone's posts in this thread, is that I think that she thinks it a bonus to have an Asiatown in her town, that she is able to enjoy the culture of China without the long plane flight, like an Epcot Center exhibit. And I find that attitude demeaning in the sense that the Asian American community isn't for pennyone's entertainment or anyone else's. Chinatowns are not some sideshow for her viewing and eating pleasure.

And when non-Asians visit Chinatowns, they are more struck by the differences in the culture than the commonalities. Especially when most of the Asians there don't speak English well and only converse in their native tongues.

And another downfall of have these ethnic pockets where the immigrants never have to learn English is that they get taken advantage of by those pretending to help them or just being bullied by their own kind. And that's why how illegal sweatshops crop up and function. So it's really much better for immigrants to be incorporated into the mainstream American society. Sure, it's uncomfortable at first, but it does force them to learn English and step up to being American citizens in every sense.

Last edited by miu; 12-13-2012 at 11:50 AM.. Reason: Hopefully adding more clarity.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
73 posts, read 205,678 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Actually not. On my own, I am completely assimilated. And many times, new contacts have asked me if I was native American or Hawaiian. And it's because of my mannerisms. I dress, move and speak unlike any Asians outside my family. In Chinatown, I stand out as not blending in with "my people"
This is what I was trying to express in my previous post--the difference between Asian immigrants and Asian Americans. 99 percent of the time when I meet someone new of Asian decent, I can tell whether they are a FOB (fresh off the boat) or 2nd plus generation Asian American, even before speaking with them. The body language and overall manner of self-conveyance is definitely different between the two groups. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what, but I agree with you entirely. I think FOBs too have an Asian American radar, because when I go into Chinatown to eat the servers almost always greet me in English while they greet the clearly FOB patrons in Mandarin or Cantonese.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:13 PM
 
5,637 posts, read 4,575,585 times
Reputation: 7907
miu, if you read my posts carefully, you will see that I am not wishing to see an 'Asiatown' for my own benefit. My take for Quincy, a city that I pay plenty of taxes to, is that the arrival of large numbers of Asians is a good thing, for many reasons. My biggest credit to Asian people is that their kids work very hard at school, and this pans out quite clearly with the fact that North Quincy High, with more than 65% Chinese kids, is ranked far higher than the Quincy High with far lower percentage of student body being Asian. Also, North Quincy High is one of the last 16 to make it to the High School Quiz Show this season, along with the likes of Wellesley High and Needham High etc (you can see for yourself). North Quincy High has more than 93% graduation rate and more than 85% of the kids go off to college. You can theorize FOBs and smelly, spitty "Asiatowns" all you want, but my point is that North Quincy High has improved markedly over the course of the "Chinese invasion". This is not something that can be taken away by anyone, even one with "flawless English".

Miu, I am happy that you are proud of your assimilation. You may be very happy with who you are, but please do not belittle the things I see everyday in my city. Like you said, you do not come through Quincy often. Let us agree to disagree. End of story.

By the way, Miu, one does a "flawless" handstand or triple jump, but one possesses a "fluent" command of the English language.

Last edited by pennyone; 12-13-2012 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:46 AM
 
5,637 posts, read 4,575,585 times
Reputation: 7907
Default A quick thing I found this morning

This is for Miu, as part of our ongoing discussion about being Asian and assimilation into the American way of life...Please read this article from this morning.

North Quincy High

Miu:

These are the kids of my Quincy Asian neighbors who are hardworking, diligent, and who love their newly adopted country. They are hardly creating an "Asian ghetto" in Quincy, but instead are combining the best elements of the American dream for success, the American spirit of community service and the age old Chinese cultural work ethics to make their city better. I dont think even you can fault them for not wanting to "assimilate".
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