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Old 12-15-2013, 09:43 AM
 
1,768 posts, read 3,219,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
The Natick Mall has been there almost 50 years. I'm not aware they've managed to lure teachers away from anywhere.

It actually happens but not on the wide scale. It is my opinion that it will happen more often in the future. Also COL are such that many younger families have to make compromise and settle in less desirable places. But they are are educated and driven enough, so they will be pushing for more quality in the schools. Waltham is in the midst of "gentrification" in schools e.g.

This is also where townie vs. newcomer mindset come in play. Townies like past and things to stay the same, newcomers see what can be done to become better (this is of course very subjective and sometimes painful topic in any given town). It is also painful as budgets are very tight and fragile.
Population trends indicate that time is on the side of the towns with some cash, be it mall, office complex, labs, etc...

BTW in my town we have had plenty of overturn in superintendents and teachers. Many younger teachers "escape" to better pay and benefits as soon as they have year or two of experience, only the middle and most senior staff stays around (they can afford to linger as they had bought their homes years ago, and often live close by). New teachers get pretty lousy pay, with very little health benefits, and understand that there will be sooner a cold day in August then them being able to afford a decent living around here. Who has lifelong dream to be living with their parents, or with roommates for the rest of their lives?
Young people carry awful lot of student debt. I do not think that this is insulated trend.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
The Natick Mall has been there almost 50 years. I'm not aware they've managed to lure teachers away from anywhere.
yeah, but 50 years ago, folks did not pay more in property taxe then for food.

look at the open house today. There are 2 in sudbury and one in natick in the 500-600 range. Right off the bat, we will not go to subbury. 10k in taxes per year for a 3-4 bdr? Really?

"well, it has 2 acres of land, thats why". To what I say: Even if it were built on a lot the size of Rhode Island, if me and my wife with 250k a year in income cant afford to pay tax on it, I am pretty damn sure not many people taking on mortgage will.

Over time, these tax bills will take their toll on house prices, and thats a fair prediction.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:25 AM
 
23,096 posts, read 18,235,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
This is my question though. If there were two identical homes one in Lexington and the other in Burlington, the Lexington home would be more expensive. Are Burlington's RE values in part lower than Lexington's because of the mall?
I'm not familiar with the history of those two towns. They are certainly not comparable today when it comes to factors other than malls.

Two comparable towns that I am familiar with that are right next door to each other, are Braintree and Randolph. They once had far more in common. They are in similar locations right off 128 and were solidly middle-class (back in the day). When the S Shore Mall came to Braintree in the 60s, that gave it a huge advantage when it came to its taxes and ability to provide education and other services. In 2013, Braintree is a very desirable town while Randolph is more known for its growing crime and poor schools. Some of it of course has to do with where people have moved in from, but the mall has certainly had its positive effect on Braintree over the years.

A perfect case study.

Last edited by massnative71; 12-15-2013 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts & Hilton Head, SC
9,916 posts, read 15,482,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL0299 View Post
yeah, but 50 years ago, folks did not pay more in property taxe then for food.

look at the open house today. There are 2 in sudbury and one in natick in the 500-600 range. Right off the bat, we will not go to subbury. 10k in taxes per year for a 3-4 bdr? Really?

"well, it has 2 acres of land, thats why". To what I say: Even if it were built on a lot the size of Rhode Island, if me and my wife with 250k a year in income cant afford to pay tax on it, I am pretty damn sure not many people taking on mortgage will.

Over time, these tax bills will take their toll on house prices, and thats a fair prediction.
Most people may not be interested, but there are enough that will want to buy in towns like Sudbury.

My daughter and son-in-law will be paying over $11,000 a year in property taxes on a 4 bedroom colonial they brought this fall. To them, the alternative is even more money for a private school.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
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I think you have to include non-retail businesses into the low property tax equation too. Burlington has the double benefit.

Personally, I don't think having a mall in town necessarily lowers or raises property values. However, just as it is elsewhere, location is key. Property (SFH specifically) values within the same town will be lower if they are on a very busy road or a congested area vs. more 'residential' areas.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:18 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,728,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
There are quite a few towns in eastern Massachusetts that show a propensity for sacrificing the very things which make them desirable for the sake of increasing the tax base to satisfy the insatiable appetite for the public sector unions.

Being new to a public sector union. I'm wondering what my insatiable appetite is. I took a 25% cut in total compensation to move from private to public (earning less than I was 10 years ago) because I wanted to do this type of work for the Commonwealth. Money comes out of my check every month to fund this pension, that I won't even be eligible for until 10 years past. How do I have a insatiable appetite? Financially I was much better off in the private sector with the higher pay and match.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:43 AM
 
23,096 posts, read 18,235,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Being new to a public sector union. I'm wondering what my insatiable appetite is. I took a 25% cut in total compensation to move from private to public (earning less than I was 10 years ago) because I wanted to do this type of work for the Commonwealth. Money comes out of my check every month to fund this pension, that I won't even be eligible for until 10 years past. How do I have a insatiable appetite? Financially I was much better off in the private sector with the higher pay and match.
Examples would be refusing to drop the municipal health insurance group plans in favor of the cheaper state plan (a common sense measure). Many unions have refused this and that is not justifiable in these difficult times.

The Boston Police getting a 25% pay increase (just because the BFD did as well) is a slap in the face to the majority who haven't had a raise in years. Now the work they do is certainly worth that money (at the very least), but many city employees (including police officers) will likely lose their jobs because of that.

It varies from city to city and from one state dept./authority to another, but some of the benefit plans are way out of line in comparison to the private sector (and other public sector jobs). I'm looking at you MBTA.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,728,963 times
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Well, I guess we'll have to chalk it up to "it varies" and my health insurance isn't as good (even with the same carrier, I have much higher co pays) as I had in the private sector. Fewer days off too (holidays) and less vacation (only 2 weeks for first 4+ years, which is pretty ridiculous, I started with at least 3 in the private sector in all my jobs over 20 years).

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about this job, it is the type of public service I've always wanted to do, but the anti public worker tirades are really annoying and paint a broad brush. Most all of the technical staff I have encountered here could make a lot more in the private sector (and many will move to it in the future).

Last edited by timberline742; 12-16-2013 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:17 AM
 
23,096 posts, read 18,235,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Well, I guess we'll have to chalk it up to "it varies" and my health insurance isn't as good (even with the same carrier, I have much higher co pays) as I had in the private sector. Fewer days off too (holidays) and less vacation (only 2 weeks for first 4+ years, which is pretty ridiculous, I started with at least 3 in the private sector in all my jobs over 20 years).

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about this job, it is the type of public service I've always wanted to do, but the anti public worker tirades are really annoying and paint a broad brush. Most all of the technical staff I have encountered here could make a lot more in the private sector (and many will move to it in the future).
Agree. It is those like the MBTA that need to be kept in line, and that give the rest of the public sector a bad name.

But I beg to differ, 2 weeks of vacation to START is not ridiculous. Very few in the public OR private sector are starting with more than that these days.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:27 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,728,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
But I beg to differ, 2 weeks of vacation to START is not ridiculous. Very few in the public OR private sector are starting with more than that these days.

Ok, sorry, but none of my friends, family members, or others I know started with 2 weeks (my situation literally makes their jaw drop). I don't know anyone that has since we were doing entry level positions. Three weeks is the standard in a professional private sector position and has been for sometime. I know more than a few that started with 4 (which they negotiated) which is not the norm, but not unheard of. We'll just need to disagree on that.
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