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I just wanted to see if anyone knew, is it common practice for a condo management company to charge unit owners for a copy of the Master Deed, Board meeting minutes, budget, etc?
Our management company says this is common practice. And while I can see this fee for Realtors and prospective buyers, is this a fee typically charged to unit owners?
For example, getting a copy of the meeting minutes will cost $50.
Also - are these documents the property of the management company? I understand it's the association who has paid the legal fees for them to be drafted. And what are the implications for example if my friend sends me a copy of her Master Deed or minutes for free...
Copy of the Master Deed - absolutely. Unit owners should have the copy they received when they purchased from the developer, or that copy should have been passed on from owner to owner. Copies of such large documents have a cost, and that cost should be borne by the unit owners causing that cost to be incurred.
When I was board president here, I scanned the sucker, and so I hope now our board just emails the PDF on request, no charge, and lets the unit owner deal with getting a copy made themselves, if all they need is a copy. However, if you're looking for a certified copy of the Master Deed (you'll probably need one to hand over to the next unit owner at closing, when you sell), printing out a PDF or having a copy made for you by a friend won't do.
Meeting Minutes and Budgets - unusual. However, I don't recall anything in our condo papers saying that such things needed to be communicated by paper... only meeting notices must be. So that would be left up to the board to determine. The management company is probably acting on the instructions of the board (you should check). Of course, if the agreement with the management company doesn't say that they're responsible for covering the cost of such things, then it'll just result in a charge-back expense to the association, so you don't really gain much from that.
I cannot imagine that your condo's Meeting Minutes are copyrighted. (You can check, of course - no visible copyright, then you can assume that you can copy a friend's, no problem.)
I'm on the Board myself, a newer member not all that well received by the board's more inner-circle and management so I may have been left out of a discussion on how to handle fees for these things.
I will just forward via email to anyone who asks me for the documents I suppose. I haven't been told directly not to. And if the fee is to cover paper, toner, labor and mailing for the document requested, the email version takes care of that. Although the management has said they won't do the email request - that they need to charge the fee. Seems odd to me for some reason.
We have five board members, three of which have been on there for some time (10-15 yrs?), too long in my opinion, and along with the management company, unfortunately aren't very adept with or open to email, pdfs or anything too efficient and/or transparent, it seems.
I have considered setting up a personal blog about "my journey as a condo board member" and serving the Deed, rules and regulations, as well as the minutes (minus anything from 'executive session') from that blog site. The minutes nor Deed/Rules are copyrighted.
I've found that any request to the management company comes with a fee, but going directly to a board member with an honest request usually gets a better result. Exceptions are if i need a key fob, in which there is an actual cost incurred. But docs and such i've never had a fee charged unless i query the management company for it. I almost feel like i'm talking to a lawyer in which every email to them will get a bill sent out to me just for the email.
Meeting minutes is strange. I'm not sure my condo even does that as i've never seen minutes offered up after our meetings.
I do find my board has their "inner-circle" and plays favorites with various unit owners. I'm sure this goes on in other buildings as well and as much as I'm tempted to run for the board this year...i just don't want to get involved in building politics.
I just wanted to see if anyone knew, is it common practice for a condo management company to charge unit owners for a copy of the Master Deed, Board meeting minutes, budget, etc?
It's extremely common although what the fee is and what is free and what is fee based varies from company to company. The management company from the condo I moved out of a couple years ago had a great website where you could view/print almost any of the condo docs for free.
What really irks me is the outrageous fee they charge for a 6D certificate. It's often $150+ just for a piece of paper. Meanwhile, the management company is paid thousands if not tens of thousands per year to manage the association. Why are these functions not included in the management fee? It seems anytime the management company is called on to manage they charge extra. I know several people who live in associations where there has been damage from a frozen pipe, improper siding installation, or a fire and the management company always take a chunk of the insurance money for "facilitating" the claim. This is so wrong in my opinion to take insurance money from people who need it to rebuild their home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxboro82
Our management company says this is common practice. And while I can see this fee for Realtors and prospective buyers, is this a fee typically charged to unit owners?
As a real estate agent, I'm not going to pay the fee. The homeowner is going to pay it. Every condo owner gets a copy of these documents either when they buy or during their ownership period. I'm not going to pay for additional copies because you chose to throw them away. I wasn't the one who made that decision. I've never had a client question that stance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxboro82
Also - are these documents the property of the management company? I understand it's the association who has paid the legal fees for them to be drafted. And what are the implications for example if my friend sends me a copy of her Master Deed or minutes for free...
As far as I know the documents are the property of the association. The fee is supposedly to process the request but it's really almost entirely profit. If it was really just for processing the fee would be $10 not $100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
However, if you're looking for a certified copy of the Master Deed (you'll probably need one to hand over to the next unit owner at closing, when you sell), printing out a PDF or having a copy made for you by a friend won't do.
I can't say I've ever needed a certified copy of the Master Deed for a transaction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxboro82
I will just forward via email to anyone who asks me for the documents I suppose. I haven't been told directly not to. And if the fee is to cover paper, toner, labor and mailing for the document requested, the email version takes care of that. Although the management has said they won't do the email request - that they need to charge the fee. Seems odd to me for some reason.
In this day & age, condo docs should absolutely be available electronically. I also applaud you for making it so that your fellow unit owners can obtain copies without paying inflated management company fees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonMike7
Meeting minutes is strange. I'm not sure my condo even does that as i've never seen minutes offered up after our meetings.
Your association should be doing this if they're not. Lenders really want to see minutes as part of the underwriting process.
In this day & age, condo docs should absolutely be available electronically. I also applaud you for making it so that your fellow unit owners can obtain copies without paying inflated management company fees.
Can I take this upon myself without repercussion do you think? I am sure the Board/Management would say 'no'. The Board would say no because they are against transparency and are mean-spirited. Management would say no because they don't want to lose the control and $. And is also somewhat mean-spirited.
If I just make my blog with the links to the docs, without trying to get permission, what might the repercussions be? I could also just make the blog and then distribute the URL in a stealth manner. Taking no responsibility. They might be able to hire an internet lawyer to find out who owns the blog, but even then, is it illegal do you think?
Last edited by foxboro82; 04-30-2014 at 11:44 AM..
You should be able to get a copy of the Master Deed on line from the Registry website and save it on your HD or print it. Hard to believe the meeting minutes are not done on someones laptop and they just can be emailed to you or posted on the condo boards website so everyone can seem them. This whole situation sounds a bit fishy to me. When people don't want to be transparent it is usually for a very good set of reasons. This smells.
You should be able to get a copy of the Master Deed on line from the Registry website and save it on your HD or print it. Hard to believe the meeting minutes are not done on someones laptop and they just can be emailed to you or posted on the condo boards website so everyone can seem them. This whole situation sounds a bit fishy to me. When people don't want to be transparent it is usually for a very good set of reasons. This smells.
Many of the registries charge you to print out recorded documents. However, as you state the Master Deed is recorded and therefore is public record. If the OP were to circulate copies there shouldn't be a problem. The other documents I'm not sure about.
Your association should be doing this if they're not. Lenders really want to see minutes as part of the underwriting process.
They may be. It's been a year since the last meeting. The next one is in a few weeks and i'll pay more attention to this detail
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