Toll Brothers (Boston, Needham, Florida: oceanfront, new home, buy)

[ggwish]

Just heard from a co-worker that Toll Brothers is not the best company. They build there homes on the cheap side. A few examples she gave me are the walls are very thin and do not use insulation. Any cut a lot of corners. Anyone else have experience with Toll Brothers?

[CaseyB]

Originally Posted by ggwish

Just heard from a co-worker that Toll Brothers is not the best company. They build there homes on the cheap side. A few examples she gave me are the walls are very thin and do not use insulation. Any cut a lot of corners. Anyone else have experience with Toll Brothers?

I never bought a house from them, but a builder told me the same thing. Basically, it was that the way they've built homes in the South wasn't suitable for New England winters. He told me that one of the houses he saw, particle board was used in place of plywood.

This was over 10 years ago, so maybe they've improved.

[GeoffD]

You just described any home built by pretty much any high volume builder. To make money, they're going to use the cheapest materials and the least labor they possibly can. Toll Brothers has been slammed a few times in the Boston Globe but I doubt they're any worse than any other builder of that type of subdivision housing. If you want a bomb-proof house, you buy one built by a custom builder who charges a premium for better materials and a lot more labor, not a housing factory.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by CaseyB

I never bought a house from them, but a builder told me the same thing. Basically, it was that the way they've built homes in the South wasn't suitable for New England winters. He told me that one of the houses he saw, particle board was used in place of plywood.

This was over 10 years ago, so maybe they've improved.

You're not going to see many homes built with plywood in New England these days since the material cost is so much more.

I hate OSB. Miami-Dade code still forbids OSB on roofs last I knew. it's also 30% less strong for penetrations so you don't want to use it on wall sheathing anywhere that sees high winds. It isn't great at dealing with moisture so I wouldn't use it on a subfloor in a bathroom or under a sink or dishwasher.

My roof deck, sheathing, and subfloor are all plywood. I was willing to spend the extra money and plan to own my house forever.

[Parsec]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

You're not going to see many homes built with plywood in New England these days since the material cost is so much more.

I hate OSB. Miami-Dade code still forbids OSB on roofs last I knew. it's also 30% less strong for penetrations so you don't want to use it on wall sheathing anywhere that sees high winds. It isn't great at dealing with moisture so I wouldn't use it on a subfloor in a bathroom or under a sink or dishwasher.

My roof deck, sheathing, and subfloor are all plywood. I was willing to spend the extra money and plan to own my house forever.

Are you serious, new homes are built with particle board in the Boston area? I thought my home from the 80s was cheap construction, but at least it uses plywood throughout.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Parsec

Are you serious, new homes are built with particle board in the Boston area? I thought my home from the 80s was cheap construction, but at least it uses plywood throughout.

I have good friends with a oceanfront home on Scraggy Neck in Cataumet. They're building a monster home next door. OSB roof and sheathing. This is a multi-million dollar home. Unless you pay a big premium to specify plywood, that is how new homes are built in Massachusetts today.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by ggwish

Just heard from a co-worker that Toll Brothers is not the best company. They build there homes on the cheap side. A few examples she gave me are the walls are very thin and do not use insulation. Any cut a lot of corners. Anyone else have experience with Toll Brothers?

I can't imagine some of these criticisms are true. A house still needs to be built according to the local building code and while that varies from town-to-town there are certainly some universal truths like that exterior walls have to be insulated. Also, I'm not sure if this is true in every town but I know in Needham all exterior walls have to be built using 2 x 6's.

This being said . . . Toll Brother's and other large scale builders don't have a reputation for building the highest quality homes. This doesn't mean the house is going to fall down around your shoulders in a year, but you'll probably see more cracking around seems, screw pops, and generally the house will look old pretty quickly.

[CaseyB]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

I can't imagine some of these criticisms are true. A house still needs to be built according to the local building code and while that varies from town-to-town there are certainly some universal truths like that exterior walls have to be insulated. Also, I'm not sure if this is true in every town but I know in Needham all exterior walls have to be built using 2 x 6's.

This being said . . . Toll Brother's and other large scale builders don't have a reputation for building the highest quality homes. This doesn't mean the house is going to fall down around your shoulders in a year, but you'll probably see more cracking around seems, screw pops, and generally the house will look old pretty quickly.

Mike, this guy who told me about the particleboard is a very good friend. He didn't make it up, and he wasn't trying to sell me one of his own houses since he wasn't building anything at that time. I saw the Toll houses because I went with another friend who was interested. The town where he saw this was somewhat lax in enforcement if you sort of "greased a few palms". I can't imagine that this would be allowed where I live, either.

This has to have been 15 years ago, or so. They may have improved. There was more than just the particleboard but I don't remember what else he said, I was so shocked by that. Since then, the Globe has written articles on Toll Brothers and their building "techniques".

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by CaseyB

Mike, this guy who told me about the particleboard is a very good friend. He didn't make it up, and he wasn't trying to sell me one of his own houses since he wasn't building anything at that time. I saw the Toll houses because I went with another friend who was interested. The town where he saw this was somewhat lax in enforcement if you sort of "greased a few palms". I can't imagine that this would be allowed where I live, either.

This has to have been 15 years ago, or so. They may have improved. There was more than just the particleboard but I don't remember what else he said, I was so shocked by that. Since then, the Globe has written articles on Toll Brothers and their building "techniques".

Hi Casey. I was actually referring to the OP's comments about uninsulated walls and walls that were thinner than normal. I'll have to look a little closer at some of the houses being built around town to see if they're using OSB or plywood. I've never looked that closely to see what kind of wood was being used. I will say though that so much of the new construction is using engineered I-beams for the joists and the upright section of that is OSB.

Personally, I don't think Toll Brothers builds a high quality house. My point was merely that building code sets up a certain minimum level of construction quality that all builders must abide by.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by CaseyB

I never bought a house from them, but a builder told me the same thing. Basically, it was that the way they've built homes in the South wasn't suitable for New England winters. He told me that one of the houses he saw, particle board was used in place of plywood.

This was over 10 years ago, so maybe they've improved.

FYI Toll Brothers is based in Pennsylvania so building homes for cold winters shouldn't be an issue.

I will tell you in Florida they build wood 2nd floors, vs. concrete block that the majority use.....I wouldn't own a Toll Brothers house.