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Hi everyone, this is my first post here and I have really benefited by scouring posts for info about moving to Western Mass. My wife and I have deep roots in Mass, all parts, but my wife's family is in Western Mass, and for the less harried feel and cheaper housing, we are thinking about moving there to expand our own family and be close to our extended families.
Let's cut to the chase: what is the DEAL with, what, a DOZEN + institutions of higher ed in the area, and yet, mediocre schools? Usually the schools in or nearby college towns are excellent. Not so, it seems, in Northampton, Amherst and vicinty. How could relatively underpaid nerds put up with mediocre schools for their kids, accepting shelling out money for private schools? I am baffled.
One theory I read here was that for K-5 ish it's OK, but then the higher grade schools draw from a larger area and dilute the quality of the schools. Other than that, I got nothin. I have not read any post here (CD) that adequately addresses the issue.
Our only real option in Longmeadow, which is close to my wife's family (though not too close, ha). But all I've heard here are stories of child trauma from cross-town taunting by brats with superiority complexes, fuelled by the materialistic, keep up with the Jones, up their own ____ attitudes of their obnoxious parents. I can outsnob anyone if I need to play those reindeer games, but frankly, I graduated from high school 20 years ago and would like to keep it that way. I just want an area with big trees and great schools and nice, educated people who know how to enjoy community. Can someone here reassure me that the Longmeadow image is just that, and not the reality? My wife's mom will tell us more of her opinion once we ask her, but I'd like to hear some diverse and disinterested opinions here.
Public schools in Mass. are paid for by property taxes. Many/most of the communities here in W. Mass. have long histories as farming towns, and simply have never had the cash that E. Mass. towns have (other than Longmeadow, as you point out). It's kind of an apples/oranges situation; salaries are lower here, houses cost less, and the schools are underfunded. People decide to live in W. Mass. because the lifestyle is less hurried and less competitive, as you point out, but the nerdy, college-based folks whom you meet (and who seem to populate the area) aren't the base and aren't the long-term natives. Those long-termers are farmers and blue-collar types, and they don't make much money, and they are tight-fisted. Having said all that, maybe you should live in Northampton, as we do. It's not Newton (where I grew up), but the schools seem pretty good.
In short, there are simply a higher proportion of working-class and poor people in Western Mass than suburban Eastern MA. It has always seemed to me, that more than anything, school performance is more highly correlated to income than ANY other factor - you can have the best teachers in the universe toiling away in Springfield and Holyoke (many teachers there are amazing) but the deep-rooted social issues caused by socioeconomic class are virtually insurmountable in a high percentage of students they are working with. The knee-jerk reaction seems to be "blame the teacher" or do city-data forum headscratching about 'WhyIsThatSchoolSystemSoBad?' when the answer is just incredibly, incredibly simple. Household income correlates to school performance PERIOD.
When a town is made up almost exclusively of highly educated, highly-performing Joneses with high incomes, school performance reflects that. When you start getting a mix of socioeconomic classes, or a pocket of poverty in a community, suddenly the performance is down versus Wellesley, and parents start fretting.
For example, Amherst has several Section 8 housing complexes where real, actual POOR people and minorities live, and send their kids to public school. Northampton is the same way. It's really not ALL little professor spawn in these communities - those little dweebs are usually doing amazingly well in Amherst and Northampton, but many of their classmates whose parents don't speak English, never went to college, or perhaps the kid comes from a broken home - not doing so well in comparison. It brings down the averages versus places like Longmeadow, which is basically a gated community where the well-off professionals of the Springfield area seek refuge from the neighboring urban blight. Longmeadow is the most Eastern MA town in Western MA, in terms of resembling the wealthiest Boston 'burbs. Hence the high performance.
Also, there is a lot of outsourcing by the privileged middle and upper classes in the area - charter schools like Pioneer Valley Performing Arts, Four Rivers School, Hilltown Cooperative, or private schools in the area suck a lot of high-performing students out of their home district. What's left in the public schools are a larger proportion of working class kids from farms or bluecollar worlds, or recent immigrants, or perhaps kids whose parents don't have a modern rat-race mentality lashing their offspring's backs bloody like they do over in Lexington or whatever.
I would suggest not sending your kids to school in Longmeadow. It has always been pressure cooker competitive, and, socially, your kids can easily be made to feel inferior if they do not have access to top name designer clothing, live in the most expensive home, have parents who belong to the "best" clubs, drive the status symbol car--and the list goes on, endlessly.
They'd get a good education in Longmeadow and they'd have the extra added status of saying they're from Longmeadow (to which most people will ask, "Are you a snob?"
They can also get a decent education in East Longmeadow where the people are more down to earth. Also Northampton and many other towns.
The key question remains, though: where do the faculty of the 5 colleges send their kids to public school (or do they just send them to private school)? Any thoughts on this welcome. I ask this because I am an academic, so my "little professors" will probably attend some school in the region. FCMA, I gather from what you're saying that kids of academics will probably fare pretty well no matter where they go. Maybe.
I've also been told by an academic here in our current city, who attended a "marginally above average" (her words) high school, that school quality in MA has to be considered in a national perspective. Because MA schools consistently rank at or near the top nationally, as a state, school rankings intra-state might not matter as much as they seem. So a 7/10 in MA could be equivalent to a 10/10 in Ohio, by this logic. She went to Elite SLAC for her BA and an Ivy League U. for her doctorate. What I take away from her argument is that, unless the score is <6, the school system is probably fine.
FCMA: yes, well attuned to the politics of teacher assessment, and point well taken there. Coupled with the other points about SES background and school funding, I'd love to see a distribution of SAT scores by parental education level (actually THE gold standard for student performance rather than parental income) in a few of these schools. No doubt in Amherst or, even more interesting perhaps, South Hadley, you'd see a huge range of scores and likely some predictable correlations. The big takeaway as a parent, though is this: can I count on the community of parents to support a school culture of learning and achievement?
Which brings me to the comments about Longmeadow. It's a timely topic: if you have high education but middling income (which I and my wife do, working in academia), then you are neither ideologically inclined nor materially well-disposed to keep up with the Joneses. You neither care about that BS or are able to play along. However, you don't want to live in an area that has historically not valued schooling. With the income gap widening and the COL rising and rising still, where do you find affordable housing (250K +/-) and decent schools? In Longmeadow there seem to be quite a few nice but modest properties. Are my kids are going to be spat upon by nouveaux riches brats and their horrible parents? Maybe times have changed, but my wife and I both grew up in upper and upper middle middle class/awesome school towns as the "relatively poor" there, and did not suffer at all from that. So, these descriptions of Longmeadow, frankly seem kind of bizarre. Again, though, maybe times have changed.
Beyond this are the intangibles about just where "feels right". My hunch is to prioritize THAT, and work backwards. Reasonably good schools being the main criterion, we will probably only "fit" in places where people are highly educated and/or value education. A good community feel and some cultural outlets would add to it. Some of your suggested spots seem to fit that bill.
If you're looking for a community of the so-called intelligentsia, AND if your politics are left of center, then I doubt you'd fit in well in Longmeadow; Northampton or Amherst would be much more your speed.
Tovarisch I appreciate your feedback. I hope there are some actual intelligentsia in that area, and not just the "so-called" type! I don't know much about the area, but having lived in a few college towns myself, I've learned that dealing with poseurs and extremists is worth the cost of living around smart people. I'd thought Longmeadow would have highly educated people, but then you're getting into details: MBAs and JDs rather than MAs and PhDs. Not my people. The key difference for us might be the KIDS, i.e. the college kids. Does the town get overrun 6 mos. out of the year? Towns like Madison and Austin, or Berkeley even, seem to cater to both students and non; the smaller the college town are more studenty, I think. I remember you discussing a related topic in another thread, I'll try to track it down.
Next time we're up in the area we'll have to spend some serious time walking around and getting a feel for it all. We had pizza one time in Florence (funny saying that!) and it the pizza was not only good but people were friendly. We've walked around Amherst near the college and it seemed nice too, albeit tiny. Lots to consider. Are there livable (decent shape, 3b) houses in the area that are between 250-300K? I can look on Trulia but thought I'd get a local perspective. Any recommended neighborhoods? THANK YOU.
Next time we're up in the area we'll have to spend some serious time walking around and getting a feel for it all. We had pizza one time in Florence (funny saying that!) and it the pizza was not only good but people were friendly. We've walked around Amherst near the college and it seemed nice too, albeit tiny. Lots to consider. Are there livable (decent shape, 3b) houses in the area that are between 250-300K? I can look on Trulia but thought I'd get a local perspective. Any recommended neighborhoods?
I spent a lot of my childhood in Florence. It is a part of Northampton that is not dominated by the professors at Smith. It's a former mill town.
You budget is tight. I'd suggest looking in Easthampton or Williamsburg.
I'm in Florence now (since 1991) and can't say enough good about it! NOT overrun by students; former mill VILLAGE (not a town as it's a section of Northampton), full of interesting folks. Might be tricky to find the right house but I think it's doable. Easthampton and Williamsburg are also good choices, but slightly further afield.
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