moving from rural CA to rural MA, advice plz (live, beach)

[sombrueil]

Oh, if only I could, I would. But leaving a small farm is no light matter even for a couple of days, especially one with dairy animals. Just before kidding season is more likely. Whately, eh?

[tovarisch]

Isn't it ALWAYS kidding season on CDF?

[RiverBird]

Originally Posted by sombrueil

Oh, if only I could, I would. But leaving a small farm is no light matter even for a couple of days, especially one with dairy animals. Just before kidding season is more likely. Whately, eh?

I don't know how old you are and how long you wish to continue to farm, but if you're older (like 60+) you may want to consider having a summer shack up here in WMass and keep your farm going where you are. It would be enormously expensive for you to take your whole operation cross-country. Not to mention the climate challenge. You could get a piece of land out in one of the hilltowns and build a cabin to spend time up here in the summer with your daughter.

[sombrueil]

Farms can't really be left at all, especially in summer. Animal care is every single morning and evening, at minimum. If we bought a farm in MA I think we'd sell all our livestock here and buy more there, when we were set up for them. I don't think we'd have much beyond goats and chickens for our own needs and maybe a very small flock of sheep for mowing the grass. We are definitely gearing down. In fact, if we were to (emotionally) transition to New England over a year or two, I'm guessing we would have to sell our livestock before that.

It wouldn't be that much more to move a bunch of tools and small machines than it would the rest of the household stuff, I don't think. It is not the expense that would worry me. For one thing, as I mentioned I think in my first post, the differential in real estate values is so great. House prices in this area are about double the more expensive areas in the rest of the country, and triple the less expensive areas. Crazy but true. We are a bedroom community for Silicon Valley.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by sombrueil

Farms can't really be left at all, especially in summer. Animal care is every single morning and evening, at minimum. If we bought a farm in MA I think we'd sell all our livestock here and buy more there, when we were set up for them. I don't think we'd have much beyond goats and chickens for our own needs and maybe a very small flock of sheep for mowing the grass. We are definitely gearing down. In fact, if we were to (emotionally) transition to New England over a year or two, I'm guessing we would have to sell our livestock before that.

It wouldn't be that much more to move a bunch of tools and small machines than it would the rest of the household stuff, I don't think. It is not the expense that would worry me. For one thing, as I mentioned I think in my first post, the differential in real estate values is so great. House prices in this area are about double the more expensive areas in the rest of the country, and triple the less expensive areas. Crazy but true. We are a bedroom community for Silicon Valley.

This is making a lot more sense now. It sounded as though you were going to come here with animals and everything that comes with them and just keep working a farm the same as you are now.

But if you are scaling down, that's a different story. Even in the old days of extended families working the farm, the elders would retire to less physically exhausting chores and let the younger family members take over that hard, demanding stuff.

Yes, land out in Western Mass is relatively cheap and from the way you've described yourself, you'd fit right into the Northampton area style. Your daughter is there and that's important too.

Winters are hard here but if you're not tending more than goats, chickens, and a few sheep, you could probably manage. You would find other people who are doing the same type of thing and make friends that way. Being older, you probably should try to stick to something relatively close in to Northampton in case you needed a hospital (which you may never need at all but it's nice to know it's there.)

We may not have mentioned Williamsburg but that would be an excellent location. It's very beautiful and is just west of Northampton. I can hardly tell where one ends and the other begins. It's fairly expensive for that area but you could afford it from what you have said. I do remember seeing llamas standing in a pasture. That's a good sign, right?

[knockingaround]

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

I have to comment on this...

To the OP:

You will not get bitten alive by bugs in WMass. Honestly. Some places for hiking and camping, maybe some mosquitoes, but that is not some big thing to scare you off from New England, unless you live in a swamp, lol. Nor is this area dripping with humidity, as in the South. There is more moisture in the air than in the West because of inland foliage and rivers, but nothing that will knock you over. I have an airy farmhouse with excellent cross breeze. We have central a.c. and have only used it for a few spells in summer.

One thing that is a problem, however, if you have pets, is ticks. You will have to educate yourself about that. For me (with two dogs), that is the only downside about living here. That, and property taxes. (You can see property tax on most realtor websites.)

Heating with wood is much less expensive than oil. Green cordwood was $190/cord if ordered by April.

I have longstanding family ties to this area and am also thinking of moving there from CA in retirement. I'm surprised though how freely people recommend supplementing highly-polluting oil heat with wood stoves, which are also quite polluting and deplete forests as well. Is there no move to bring natural gas to W Mass? I recall someone in Great Barrington mentioning its availability there. Is solar energy not an option, at least as a supplement? I understand how costly it is to heat in New England given the long, cold winters, and that the use propane is probably prohibitively expensive for most people. I've lived for decades in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and other places that are cold, so I'm no stranger to winter, but the heating practices in New England confound me.

[Dm84]

Originally Posted by knockingaround

I have longstanding family ties to this area and am also thinking of moving there from CA in retirement. I'm surprised though how freely people recommend supplementing highly-polluting oil heat with wood stoves, which are also quite polluting and deplete forests as well. Is there no move to bring natural gas to W Mass? I recall someone in Great Barrington mentioning its availability there. Is solar energy not an option, at least as a supplement? I understand how costly it is to heat in New England given the long, cold winters, and that the use propane is probably prohibitively expensive for most people. I've lived for decades in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and other places that are cold, so I'm no stranger to winter, but the heating practices in New England confound me.

Wood stoves are the cheapest way to supplement oil heat (oil heat and propane are both expensive). Oil heat is the heating system used in older houses and houses built in areas without natural gas because at the time it was the cheapest or only option available.

Natural gas is used in about half the homes in MA, but outside of cities and other densely populated towns it's not as widely available. Even in a lot of suburbs, natural gas is available on main streets but once you turn off onto a side street it's just not available. The gas companies have been installing new gas lines and converting people to natural gas where it's economically viable but it's a slow process and pipeline capacity here isn't adequate.

Solar energy is nice but not really viable for heat.

[knockingaround]

Thanks very much for this enlightening response. I didn't realize how widespread gas availability was in MA cities. Oil is a problem in terms of population and its high cost, but of course gas is a fossil fuel, too and is hardly ideal. I wonder if the energy issue is partly responsible for driving so many new residents to build their own houses, or whether that trend stems mainly from the narcissism of the wealthy as it seems to do everywhere else in the country, as in "Who wants to live in a used house?"

[knockingaround]

I meant to say that oil is problematic in terms of pollution, not population.

[n1ey]

Originally Posted by knockingaround

I have longstanding family ties to this area and am also thinking of moving there from CA in retirement. I'm surprised though how freely people recommend supplementing highly-polluting oil heat with wood stoves, which are also quite polluting and deplete forests as well. Is there no move to bring natural gas to W Mass? I recall someone in Great Barrington mentioning its availability there. Is solar energy not an option, at least as a supplement? I understand how costly it is to heat in New England given the long, cold winters, and that the use propane is probably prohibitively expensive for most people. I've lived for decades in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and other places that are cold, so I'm no stranger to winter, but the heating practices in New England confound me.

50% of homes in Mass are not heated by gas. Everyone talks about the gas crunch. For years "liberals" pushed to eliminate the reserve gas tanks in Boston.
Vermont has a push for liquid gas. There are new terminals in VT. Massachusetts has a lot of hypocrites. Real woodsmen are found in Vermont. I would seek land in Southern Vermont. Overall taxation might be higher. However, the area is not as developed. You will be surprised. Northampton and the surrounding area is built. It is close to the issues of Springfield. Commuter buses run to the city.

Places like Bennington, VT have more similarities to Santa Cruz in terms of density and outlook.
Depending on your spot and your daughter's spot the travel time between the two would not necessarily be outrageous.

Bill