Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 11-12-2014, 09:21 PM
 
10 posts, read 20,581 times
Reputation: 13

Advertisements

We are relocating from the Midwest (we are originally from the east coast) for work and planning to make this a permanent move. We are excited! We have 4 young sons and are looking for feedback - honest qualitative feedback - on the schools. We are basing the location in the suburbs on schools (and then hoping we can afford a house to fit all 6 of us!). We've read all the lists and seen the rankings based on test scores, but what can people share about the schools that the tests don't show? My kids are in elementary school, but we care about the total school experience. Things like:
- excellent teachers who are willing and able to teach to different learning styles
- supportive and communicating administration
- high parent involvement (in a positive way, not "helicoptering")
- community support
- small class sizes
- some diversity

We are considering public and private in our decision making process.
We do not need to commute into the city as job is in waltham.
Please share your thoughts and experiences. Thank you.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-13-2014, 08:54 AM
 
1,296 posts, read 1,322,828 times
Reputation: 1224
Unfortunately, because test scores are easy to measure and compare,they become the focal point regarding school assessment. In reality, these scores and school rankings usually measure socio-economic status more than anything else. More expensive districts also teach to the test to ensure their town is perceived as a desirable place to live.

To factor in all of your metrics, you really just need to go visit schools, and ideally talk to parents of students there. This dreamschool finder is also a neat tool you can use to weigh factors other than test scores:

Dreamschool: Top 15 high schools in Massachusetts overall Top 15 high schools in Mass. - Your Town - Boston.com
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 09:18 AM
 
226 posts, read 384,649 times
Reputation: 386
that's a cool tool.

i just punched in all of the things that are important to our family and the school district we are in popped up as #8 guess i picked the right town!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 11:31 AM
 
1,768 posts, read 3,221,753 times
Reputation: 1592
Welcome. Not to burst your hopes but every good school district closer to Boston is "attacked" lately, and has growing class sizes.

Teachers will teach best they know how, and can not physically accommodate to tech each child to its own needs. It is naive to think that any school can be as tailored--public or private. That being said, many district around here have great teachers that care, and make sure kids are learning what they need to learn and go above and beyond their call of duty. More usually in wealthy school district, parents will make sure there are many great enrichment opportunities. Learning doesn't stop once you are done with school for most kids.

Administration is hit or miss, and you would need to go into school, and see and feel for yourself. Those are very personal impressions.

Most parents helicopter nowadays even if they are in denial, and only other parents do it. It is unavoidable, every area have its shares of "squeaky wheels", and overbearing parents.

Some of the best school districts have sizable Asian population mixed with some Europeans. Brookline,Cambridge, Newton, Belmont, Lexington, all have some diversity and so is Acton and Concord little further away. Closer to Boston greater diversity in general.

Most people gravitate toward the best towns, hence overcrowding lately.

Lexington, Belmont, Newton, Brookline, Lincoln, Sudbury, Concord, Acton (All to the west for easier commute to Waltham) are your usual suspects.

Good luck.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
14,200 posts, read 14,574,865 times
Reputation: 22009
Overall you might find schools in MA are not as caring and concerned with students as schools in the Midwest were. They are more into catering to either bright or handicapped children rather then the great masses in between. They will also be fast to diagnose a child with issues thus creating a stigma that follows the child. In many older cities you will find some worn out, bordering on not habitable buildings even in some very upmarket towns.

Do not mean to paint as grip picture as I have. There are much worse state education systems. The point is the MA education system is just not as good as many in the system believe it to be.

And yes I did move a child from Naperville IL to Andover MA but this was some years ago and not a reflection on Andover, but on MA itself.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 04:12 PM
 
1,768 posts, read 3,221,753 times
Reputation: 1592
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
Overall you might find schools in MA are not as caring and concerned with students as schools in the Midwest were. They are more into catering to either bright or handicapped children rather then the great masses in between. They will also be fast to diagnose a child with issues thus creating a stigma that follows the child. In many older cities you will find some worn out, bordering on not habitable buildings even in some very upmarket towns.

Do not mean to paint as grip picture as I have. There are much worse state education systems. The point is the MA education system is just not as good as many in the system believe it to be.

And yes I did move a child from Naperville IL to Andover MA but this was some years ago and not a reflection on Andover, but on MA itself.
Wholeheartedly agree about physical buildings. There are no municipalities, and every town fends for itself, so amenities are nowhere near most of the US. But, this is why we still have small neighborhood schools where kids can walk or bike around. As everywhere there are trade-offs.

MA schools reflect its uber-educated parent population, and emphasis on education, since our economy is all about high-skilled workers. However, unlike in CA or other areas we are still very traditional in our approach to knowledge, and nowhere near cutting edge in using technology, offering programming and other tech subjects in our schools. For such high research, tech, and bio-tech strong area, we have remarkably little push in our schools to reflect that reality.

We tend to change very slowly, and any big change is viewed suspiciously, and debated for ages before we can agree to implement some of it. Pluses and minuses, like everywhere. Anybody can find their niche, and as long as town population cares about education, and invests in it, you are all set. There is huge correlation between RE prices and schools. But in general this is very traditional area with lifestyle of yesteryear.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 06:38 PM
 
10 posts, read 20,581 times
Reputation: 13
Thank you for your perspectives. What do you know about the private schools in relation to my first post? Which ones would you recommend/not recommend with some qualitative feedback:
Brimmer and May
Fenn School
Fessenden
Nashoba Brooks
BB&N

Any others?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 07:19 PM
 
1,768 posts, read 3,221,753 times
Reputation: 1592
Shady hill, Feyerweather Street School, Belmont Day School, Atrium School, Tenacre Country Day School. There are many interesting places around.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2014, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
5,037 posts, read 6,878,046 times
Reputation: 5960
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3boys View Post
We are relocating from the Midwest (we are originally from the east coast) for work and planning to make this a permanent move. We are excited! We have 4 young sons and are looking for feedback - honest qualitative feedback - on the schools. We are basing the location in the suburbs on schools (and then hoping we can afford a house to fit all 6 of us!). We've read all the lists and seen the rankings based on test scores, but what can people share about the schools that the tests don't show? My kids are in elementary school, but we care about the total school experience. Things like:
- excellent teachers who are willing and able to teach to different learning styles
- supportive and communicating administration
- high parent involvement (in a positive way, not "helicoptering")
- community support
- small class sizes
- some diversity
I think you're over-thinking things a bit here. For one, asking for a school with excellent teachers is like asking for a town with great neighbors. All towns have some great neighbors and some awful ones and its difficult to tell which you're going to get.

It's also difficult to tell what one considers "high parent involvement" but doesn't consider "helicoptering". I'm sure what I consider helicoptering someone else might consider borderline neglect. Class size, at least, is a statistic that you can look up.

You'll find that to the lowest order school rankings reflect demographics and to a lesser extent resources (which also reflect demographics). I think more important than finding perfect schools is to find the kind of community you want to live in. Do you want urban, suburban, sparse suburban (there really isn't rural), or somewhere between two of those? Do you want an old house in a dense neighborhood with great walkability or a sparse development with lots of trees?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3boys View Post
We are considering public and private in our decision making process.
We do not need to commute into the city as job is in waltham.
Please share your thoughts and experiences. Thank you.
I should mention that when comparing states by education, Massachusetts is nearly always in the top 10. There are a few failing schools, but not many, and in almost any town you live in your sons will be able to get an education that will allow them to succeed later in life.

You don't mention budget. If you're considering sending four kids to private schools I'm guessing it's astronomically high. That's like $120k/year. In other words, if you bought a $1m house and took out a 10 year (not 15 or 30, but 10), principle and interest on that 10 year mortgage would run you less than $120k/year. With a $1m+ budget you can get a reasonable house in ANY SCHOOL DISTRICT in the state, including top-tier places like Lexington, Dover, Weston, and Wellesley.

Will the public schools in those places be noticeably worse than at an expensive private school? Maybe, but I think you'll have far more influence on your sons than the difference between private and top public schools (and since you're asking these questions it suggests that you'll be a good influence). Of course, if your budget is already $10m+ that extra money probably doesn't make a difference and a top private school might be worth it.

Of course, some people swear by private schools, even in much lower tax brackets, so I may just have a bias against private schools when there are good public schools. I grew up in part in the deep south (Louisiana) where almost everyone with any money went to private schools because they were afraid of the forced integration in the public schools, which caused the public schools to become neglected, which caused the fears of the public schools to be justified, which reinforced the original fears. There I could at least understand why parents would send their kids to private schools. In Massachusetts it just doesn't make sense to me at all (except for the ultra-wealthy).
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2014, 06:58 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,754,792 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingeorge View Post
Welcome. Not to burst your hopes but every good school district closer to Boston is "attacked" lately, and has growing class sizes.

You know, I grew up with 25-30 kids in a class, often enough, and I don't think it has that much of an impact. I don't think the research has born out (though it has been 10 years since I looked at it) that is makes a giant difference. Perhaps that has changed since then, I don't know.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top