'Do Bostonians really care about Western MA' Globe article (Springfield: 2014, brokers)

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by kingeorge

It is called well rounded person. Curiosity is a wonderful thing. Why be automated "know only what I need to know", and how you know what you need to know if you know very little to begin with?

The more you learn and "know", more you understand how much you still do not know. It is great type of humility to acquire, and conscientiously so.

I have no ties with West MA, but I did took some time to visit here and there. It is beautiful part of our state we can be proud to call our own. I am very grateful for West MA forum posters who help us all learn more about it, and keep me, at least, interested about perspectives on MA and life in general from their Western point of view.

I would argue that we are all richer for this exposure here. Even if you live for a long time in MA, you can always learn something new every day on this forum. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

As Kingeorge suggested, it reflects someone who has observed the world around them and has breadth of knowledge.

I've seen a number of people thoroughly embarrass themselves in client meetings/dinners because they never burdened themselves with 'useless' knowledge. I don't expect a resident of ... say ... Arlington to know the specifics of some small podunk town in western MA, but I do expect that they understand that one would not simply "Swing by Mass MOCA while in Worcester" ... as if being in Worcester somehow puts one on the cusp of western MA. When things like this are uttered from the mouths of seemingly intelligent people (and they are!) I have to pause and think "what a cute little world you live in".

Now, I don't expect someone living in subsidized housing in Roxbury to have this breadth of knowledge, but I expect someone who is well educated and upwardly mobile to have some geographical understanding. It's not as if Bostonians are living in an all consuming environment like NYC.

I'm not going to argue that breadth of knowledge is important, because I agree that it is, but the question is of relative importance. There's far more knowledge in the world than any single person in the world can have, so choices have to be made as to what the knowledge one acquires and retains. The geography of the (comparatively) sparsely populated western region of the state you live in is probably of some importance, but so are things like the location of places like Slovakia and Niger, the underpinnings of quantitative easement, the basics of integral calculus, the orbital period of the Earth and the Moon, and the writings of Mark Twain. It's certainly up for debate how important those nuggets of information are relative to each other, but seeing as a recent poll of Americans indicate that over 80% wantmandatory labeling of foods containing DNA, I think there's a lot of things that people need to know more about.

That being said, I'm not trying to argue that it's a good thing people are ignorant about geography (I'm a geography nerd, for one), especially of their own state. It's not a good thing. I'm mostly pointing out that it does appear to be true and that there is a specific conclusion that one should draw from that: Western Massachusetts isn't that important to people. That doesn't mean that I think that it's a horrible place, or unworthy of taxpayer funds or government attention, just that it's level of importance to people that don't live there is low. Parts are beautiful and I'm sure it makes a great place to live.

Similarly Boston isn't particularly important to people in Virginia and totally unimportant to people in Novosibirsk, whereas somewhere like NYC is important enough for people all over the world to know about.

[FCMA]

Attitude comes from things like Baker confirming he doesn't care about three counties' opinions whose population totals more than Worcester and Springfield combined, delaying infrastructure improvements on roads and bridges, no weekend bus service in Franklin County and substandard service throughout Worcester County and west, placing addiction treatment centers in uneven ways, etc. Route 2 for example was supposed to be a real highway at least to Greenfield, but the state decided saving a little by cheaping out on some hicks was acceptable, creating one of the state's most dangerous roads with dozens of deaths and hundreds of injuries on that stretch since. I've posted about it before, but having no state-subsidized opioid detox beds accessible to poor communities along the entire route 2 corridor from Ayer to Fitchburg to Athol to Greenfield to North Adams is simply supremely negligent and creates further hardship for some of the already most downtrodden cities and towns in the state. The attitude stems from neglect- neglect that in some cases goes beyond the simply benign neglect to become actual negligence.

There is more to do in Vermont relative to its tiny population because there are fewer large central towns and cities- a city like Burlington is the only thing going, so it is jampacked with services and liveliness versus cities in MA with similar population, which includes such vibrant hubs as Westfield, Holyoke, Leominster, Fitchburg, Everett, Attleboro, and Billerica, all overshadowed by the bigger cities whose influence dominates them. It's all relative.

[Shrewsburried]

Don't even get me started on Ayer.

You have a cute little downtown with commuter rail access, Bristol Myers-Squibb spending hundreds of millions of dollars on facilities 1 mile away in Devens, a hot neighboring Littleton real estate market, and yet the town approves another fast food joint in the town center ... as if to say "we hate ourselves".

[timberline742]

fast joint?

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by timberline742

fast joint?

edited.

[mdovell]

In a sense though wouldn't a bright thing to do just create a special economic zone?

What if they take Franklin county a pretty low population on the scale of say Quincy. Once you factor out Greenfield it is even less. What if they take that and make it sales tax free and income tax free? The cost would be low but at the same point help prevent any exodus. that way there are more openings and it develops further to ultimately get more when taxes are ultimately raised back up.

"You have a cute little downtown with commuter rail access, Bristol Myers-Squibb spending hundreds of millions of dollars on facilities 1 mile away in Devens, a hot neighboring Littleton real estate market, and yet the town approves another fast food joint in the town center ... as if to say "we hate ourselves"."

I don't think that means they hate themselves. If not everyone can get those jobs then what exactly is the recourse? sometimes there are differences between places where people live and work. It often times is not the same place. High ended places might appear to have wealth but if they are dependent on jobs outside of it then that shows dependency.

There is such a thing called zoning which does allow for various businesses to operate.

[bolehboleh]

I've searched on the internet for information but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Is there a site that can show how much each town/city in Massachusetts contributes to state taxes vs how much they get in return? This has been done on a national level. For example, Mass and NJ contribute more to the federal coffers than they get in return, but MS takes more from the feds than they contribute. What about locally?

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by bolehboleh

I've searched on the internet for information but I can't seem to find what I'm looking for. Is there a site that can show how much each town/city in Massachusetts contributes to state taxes vs how much they get in return? This has been done on a national level. For example, Mass and NJ contribute more to the federal coffers than they get in return, but MS takes more from the feds than they contribute. What about locally?

I searched for this too and couldn't find anything. I'd also be interested if someone could find that information.

[LivingBeyond495]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

Don't even get me started on Ayer.

You have a cute little downtown with commuter rail access, Bristol Myers-Squibb spending hundreds of millions of dollars on facilities 1 mile away in Devens, a hot neighboring Littleton real estate market, and yet the town approves another fast food joint in the town center ... as if to say "we hate ourselves".

Are you talking about the Subway? Believe me, I am not fan of it -- but there was a Subway downtown before, in a much uglier building that burned down. That lot, unfortunately, has become a parking lot. Very discouraging.

I have fallen behind on town politics, but I did dip my toe in it several years back when there was a push to move the train station to the middle of nowhere near Devens rather than downtown. It was really very depressing -- I wouldn't say the people pushing some decisions are saying "we hate ourselves" -- more like "we are disillusioned and still looking back to when our economy depended on the army base." Plus, there's all sorts of private owner battles about the real estate and parking in downtown Ayer. I'm actually surprised the downtown is in as good a condition as it is. It used to be much worse.

[semiurbanite]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

I'm mostly pointing out that it does appear to be true and that there is a specific conclusion that one should draw from that: Western Massachusetts isn't that important to people.

Maybe not important to Eastern MA people. But you would be amazed how many wealthy New Yorkers own homes in the Berkshires. It's actually a very important cultural attraction for the higher income NYC crowd. Towns like Lenox and Stockbridge are on par with Lexington when it come to wealth. I grew up there but settled down in Somerville.

Another aspect at play here is that NYC has fewer appealing rural option than Bostonians. We have Vermont, Maine and NH all relatively close by so we tend to gravitate to those areas. New Yorkers have upstate NY and the Berkshires.