Why is the MBTA so incompetent? (Boston, Cambridge: employment, public schools, income tax)

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

^^^Exactly. Sales taxes and gas taxes collected outside the MBTA's service area and income taxes collected outside Boston and Cambridge should be used for any purposes other than the MBTA.

Using myself as a case in point, I live in New Hampshire. I religiously fill my gas tank in New Hampshire unless I am traveling. I also make all my purchases in New Hampshire or online. I do not contribute to Massachusetts sales or gas taxes on principle. However I do presently work in the MA suburbs at an employer where no one uses the MBTA. My income taxes paid to the state of Massachusetts should not be used for the MBTA.

Boston and Cambridge employers and the riders should bear the brunt of funding the MBTA.

What makes you think they don't already do? I have yet to see a detailed accounting of where money comes from and where money goes. It's clear that Boston and Cambridge use a lot of transportation resources but they also generate a great deal of the state's revenues.

If you want a Super-Libertarian form of government where everything is based on user-paid fees that's understandable, but if you just don't want to pay for stuff you don't use while you're perfectly happy to have others pay for stuff you do use that just seems unfair.

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I am NOT in favor of giving them sales tax from people who have never even used it in their entire lives. The people who use it should pay for it. There are millions of people in this state who live nowhere near it and have only heard of it--believe it or not.

Maybe cut the high salaries of some of them, if they can. Put a few people in charge the way they do with a failing school system. Make them accountable, give them a certain amount of time. Don't just throw money at it.

Let's do this. Metro Boston won't take a cent from the rest of the state and the rest of the state won't get a cent from Metro Boston. I'm not actually sure who would fare better, but it would at least be more transparently equitable.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

What makes you think they don't already do? I have yet to see a detailed accounting of where money comes from and where money goes. It's clear that Boston and Cambridge use a lot of transportation resources but they also generate a great deal of the state's revenues.

If you want a Super-Libertarian form of government where everything is based on user-paid fees that's understandable, but if you just don't want to pay for stuff you don't use while you're perfectly happy to have others pay for stuff you do use that just seems unfair.



Let's do this. Metro Boston won't take a cent from the rest of the state and the rest of the state won't get a cent from Metro Boston. I'm not actually sure who would fare better, but it would at least be more transparently equitable.

Only if you give us back the Swift River. The "other" part of the state gave it away to EMass back in the '30s so that Boston could have more drinking water. Quabbin Resevoir is there instead of the towns and the river. Boston needed more water so that Boston could get bigger. Boston always needs more and more so it can get bigger and bigger. More and more crowded too.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

Let's do this. Metro Boston won't take a cent from the rest of the state and the rest of the state won't get a cent from Metro Boston. I'm not actually sure who would fare better, but it would at least be more transparently equitable.

The rest of the state would be in a gutter. Like VT minus Burlington,but even worse. It would be a red welfare state. The numbers don't lie.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Dude, do you understand the concept of subcontracting? The MBTA owns the commuter rail locomotives. The MBTA owns the commuter rail coach cars. The MBTA owns most of the commuter rail tracks (Worcester line is the exception). The MBTA sells the commuter rail passes. However the MBTA subcontracts the labor for the commuter rail out to Keolis (and MBCR and Amtrak before that). Commuter rail is part of the MBTA.

I do. I've worked for and been part of management of wholly owned subsidiaries.

The Commuter Rail is a separate system as you propose. A subsidiary.

If you drive to MA for work in any area of the MBTA, you benefit from it. If you are a net beneficiary of tax dollars in the Commonwealth, you benefit from it. Anyone that uses the roads within the region, benefits from it.

[mdovell]

Yes the commuter rail is owned by the MBTA. The management contract right now is Keolis, it was a ugly fight with MBCR but it is Keolis.

At this point the MBTA is probably in dire straights. To be frank I worked a bit in transit and the MBTA is NOT run well. It has serious issues with infrastructure, administration, management and service.

1) FTA suggests a life of a bus to be at 10 years and railcars at 25 years.
https://www.bostonherald.com/news_op...g_repair_needs
The MBTA stopped assessing repair needs back in 2009. The railcars being used date from the late 1960's to early 1980's. At best the railcars were supposed to be taken out of service in 2008..at best


2) The rails themselves are not elevated unlike other transit authorities. This means if snow, wind, rain or debris blows around it's more likely to get on the tracks.

3) Take a look at this for a moment. http://tinyurl.com/m45reyd
See that big mound of blankness in Springfield? That was a westinghousing facility. It's 40 acres
Announcement related to proposed Springfield rail car factory expected | WWLP.com
It won't start full production for another two years and probably won't finish the fleet of MBTA cars for another three years.

Now this wouldn't be that big of a deal had I not been reading the Power Broker. It's a book about government and was published 41 years ago.

The same issues the MBTA is facing now are nearly EXACTLY what the MTA faced in the late 1960's/early 1970's. These are not problems that someone can throw money at and fix.

page 930 "In 1974, people using subways and railroads in and around New York were still riding on tracks laid between 1904 and 1933, the last year before Robert Moses came to power in the city. Not a single mile had been built since"

page 931 "The cars into which subway riders were crammed were cars thirty and fourty years old in 1955, and due for replacement. ...They were not replaced and in 1965, almost 20% of NY's subway cars had been in use for more then a half century."

page 931 "Not only were new cars not purchased; the old one were not repaired. It was about 1956 that there was instituted on the NYC subway system, because of alack of funds, a policy of "deferred maintenance" a phrase which, translated into practice, meant that breaks and signals and switches were inspected less frequently, that electrical relays which should have been replaced every five years were replaced every thirty years, that the vast system was sometimes completely "out" of light bulbs to replaced burnt out signals, alcohol to keep switches from freezing, and other basic supplies. "

It goes on to detail people being trapped/stranded on cars, smoking coming from tracks/cars and so forth.

If the MBTA was a private carrier the FTA would have shut them down years ago. Crystal Transit had the UMass Boston route, basically one big loop (if you were there you know what I mean) Basically it's a loop to go from the entrance to the subway station. They did not perform safety checks for years and were shut down by the feds.
UMass Boston hires bus vendors to replace Crystal Transport after carrier failed federal safety probe - Business news - Boston.com

Maybe they should just look at shutting down the system for the winter at this point. December to February, November to March etc. I know some argue about eastern and western mass of who pays what but to be honest with you I would argue the large employers, academia and hospitals should be footing the bill here because they gain more then anyone else in boston from the mbta. 93% of all federal transit funds for Mass go to the MBTA. The remaining go to SRTA, WRTA, BAT, PVTA etc. We don't see those issues (for the most part) at other places because frankly they have to compete in areas that are more suburban with less people and thus more competition from cars, bikes and just walking. Parking in Boston during the day is next to impossible unless you have some major funds.

In lieu of this the other option is for employers to simply just leave the city and go to other areas. Lowell, Lawrence, Lynn, Fall River, New Bedford, Brockton, Springfield etc. The conditions that exist right now with the MBTA are still going to be there for at least another four years. How many employers want to wait out four years of a seasonal transit system?

[Whatsnext75]

Has there really been talk of the mbta being seasonal until it gets updated? That's crazy

[Dm84]

I don't think a seasonal shutdown is a viable option because it would devastate the MA economy. I am starting to think a 1 week shutdown wouldn't be the worst idea if they could actually repair the system enough to make it functional again. However, I'm not sure that would be enough.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by mdovell

I know some argue about eastern and western mass of who pays what but to be honest with you I would argue the large employers, academia and hospitals should be footing the bill here because they gain more then anyone else in boston from the mbta.

Absolutely. Those large entities (Harvard, MGH, Northeastern, Liberty Mutual, State Street, BU, etc.) that create the most need for the MBTA should foot the bill for its maintenance and upkeep.

[Dm84]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

Absolutely. Those large entities (Harvard, MGH, Northeastern, Liberty Mutual, State Street, BU, etc.) that create the most need for the MBTA should foot the bill for its maintenance and upkeep.

I just want to point out that while people love to rag on colleges because of their non-profit status, they still pay payroll tax, and their employees pay the same taxes everyone else does. Also their mere presence generates so much economic activity for the region as a whole.

[AtkinsonDan]

Originally Posted by Dm84

I just want to point out that while people love to rag on colleges because of their non-profit status, they still pay payroll tax, and their employees pay the same taxes everyone else does. Also their mere presence generates so much economic activity for the region as a whole.

Oh, I didn't single out the colleges. The colleges are just one category of large entities that should support the MBTA.