Should CT be considered part of New England? (Boston, Springfield: colleges, taxes)

[skytrekker]

Cultural- yes how can you not? NYC is a powerful identity. But as you said your Cape Cod house says allot- Even southwestern CT visually is New England not NYC, not NJ or the mid Atlantic states. The New England states have a strong cultural difference between other regions of the country- even close to an area like NY- these differences appear not so much in social culture- but on geographic tolerances- both distance wise, housing architecture and more.

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by JWatertown

Oh, and geographically/topographically, western CT is much more akin to the Hudson Valley of New York. By the way, isn't New York sometimes even considered part of New England, or did Bostonians decide to exclude them?

NO- visually- the Hudson valley is not New England- although it has been linked that way. The house form and culture of the Hudson Valley does not look like New England in any way- - once you leave CT into NY state-things do change visually-it is very easy to see the differences.

[Mark_CT]

Originally Posted by JWatertown

What are you talking about? New Jersey is more of a parking lot for NY than CT. Have you ever even been to the NY suburbs in the SW part of the state; they are among the wealthiest, most desirable towns in the country e.g. Greenwich, New Canaan, Darien, etc. CT is not a parking lot for NYC, its where NYC's CEOs and Investment Bankers live. New Yorkers think CT is gorgeous and MANY summer here, CT comes with the added bonus of welcoming people from NY and being kind unike people from MA.

Ahh, finally, a fellow nutmegger agrees with me!

[Mark_CT]

Jeez... did I just ignite something?

[willdufauve]

It depends what exit but - no, Ct is not part of New England.

Ct is part of New York.

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by willdufauve

It depends what exit but - no, Ct is not part of New England.

Ct is part of New York.

Again- look at the house form and culture and the geographic tolerances
Connecticut is very much New England-and has little identity with New York in any way.
Housing design is different- the geographic tolerances are different- the town greens are unique to New England.
I am in northeastern CT- a mere 17 miles from Hartford- I look more to Providence and Boston as the epicenter-

New England including Connecticut is a very unique part of the country- and at most extreme south western CT has many cultural links to NY- but 'visually' it is still strongly resembles New England.

[jad2000]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

Again- look at the house form and culture and the geographic tolerances
Connecticut is very much New England-and has little identity with New York in any way.
Housing design is different- the geographic tolerances are different- the town greens are unique to New England.
I am in northeastern CT- a mere 17 miles from Hartford- I look more to Providence and Boston as the epicenter-

New England including Connecticut is a very unique part of the country- and at most extreme south western CT has many cultural links to NY- but 'visually' it is still strongly resembles New England.

I strongly disagree that CT "has little identity with New York in any way." It's just not true.

Most towns in greater Waterbury and greater New Haven watch NY television, have access to Metro-North commuter rail running through the center of many towns and many newcomers to the area are transforming the western Connecticut 'accent'. Go to towns on the Northern fringes of the NYC area---Hamden, New Milford, Woodbury---you will find that the accents are very similar to that of the lower Hudson Valley of NY.

If you live near Norwalk or Stamford, you can be in "the city" in about 40 minutes. Greenwich, 20 minutes without traffic. Suburban NYC includes three counties in CT - Fairfield, New Haven and southern Litchfield.

When it comes to sports teams, those in western CT tend to favor NY teams.

They call New York 'the city' and in even the outlying parts of the NYC area, you can be in Manhattan within 90 minutes and that's WITH hitting some traffic.

I do agree that housing styles are vastly different once you cross over into New York. Connecticut has a much cleaner image and yes, it's geographically part of New England. Many in Boston refer to it as an extension of New York, as do many people in western Connecticut, but geographically it's part of NE. I have also noticed that west of New Haven and South of Waterbury, there is still a hint of that New England reservation.

Whether one likes it or not, western Connecticut is more culturally tied to New York than it is Providence, Boston or even Hartford.

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by jad2000

I strongly disagree that CT "has little identity with New York in any way." It's just not true.

Most towns in greater Waterbury and greater New Haven watch NY television, have access to Metro-North commuter rail running through the center of many towns and many newcomers to the area are transforming the western Connecticut 'accent'. Go to towns on the Northern fringes of the NYC area---Hamden, New Milford, Woodbury---you will find that the accents are very similar to that of the lower Hudson Valley of NY.

When it comes to sports teams, those in western CT tend to favor NY teams.

They call New York 'the city' and in even the outlying parts of the NYC area, you can be in Manhattan within 90 minutes and that's WITH hitting some traffic.

I do agree that housing styles are vastly different once you cross over into New York. Connecticut has a much cleaner image and yes, it's geographically part of New England. Many in Boston refer to it as an extension of New York, as do many people in western Connecticut, but geographically it's part of NE. I have also noticed that west of New Haven and South of Waterbury, there is still a hint of that New England reservation.

Whether one likes it or not, western Connecticut is more culturally tied to New York than it is Providence, Boston or even Hartford.

You are totally missing the message

I am looking at 'house form and culture' not TV- not the New York Yankees

even in Waterbury- the housing is far more close to what exists in Boston or Providence- 2 and three decker homes- Cape Cods and Colonials clustered close together.

The town greens- typically New England-go to New Milford CT, near the New York border-it looks like a town close to Boston, more then the Hudson Valley.

Accents in New Haven and Hamden? Funny-never have heard them. Even I in eastern CT have no accent- Connecticut geographically us New England- the Yankees, NY TV stations may alter this a bit in far western CT- but no part of Connecticut visually resembles NY in any way.

[jad2000]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

You are totally missing the message

I am looking at 'house form and culture' not TV- not the New York Yankees

even in Waterbury- the housing is far more close to what exists in Boston or Providence- 2 and three decker homes- Cape Cods and Colonials clustered close together.

The town greens- typically New England-go to New Milford CT, near the New York border-it looks like a town close to Boston, more then the Hudson Valley.

Accents in New Haven and Hamden? Funny-never have heard them. Even I in eastern CT have no accent- Connecticut geographically us New England- the Yankees, NY TV stations may alter this a bit in far western CT- but no part of Connecticut visually resembles NY in any way.

As for culture of the people, western CT is closer to NY culture than it is Boston culture. If you look at a map of predominant nationalities, New Haven and Fairfield Counties are predominantly Italian, along with Westchester and other NY counties. Nowhere in the country (including RI) has the amount of Italians that greater NYC has. This means that many western CT locals have family trees that trace back to NY not far in the past (maybe one or two generations, if that).

People I have come across in southwestern Connecticut have family ties to New York. My family is from Staten Island and the vast majority of people I come across have family either in one of the boroughs or in the immediate NYC area (southern Westchester, Nassau County or Bergen County). At Fairfield University and WCSU, a huge amount of professors come from New York as well, many now living in CT year round.

Yes many towns do have a town green. Just because they have a green doesn't mean that culturally, they have no ties with New York. Have you been to the center of New Canaan? It's not all that New Englandy, nor is Darien or Greenwich. Sure, they're leafy, but not very New England looking.

I do not mean the locals in Hamden or New Milford talk with NY accents, but there is a huge influx of NYers to these towns. Take Oxford for example, a huge majority of people moving into 55+ homes are New Yorkers. In New Milford, it's becoming the year round residence for NYers who formerly had summer homes here. They are now commuting to NYC from Litchfield County. What I'm getting at is culturally, SW Connecticut is more "New York" than it has ever been. Many towns outside of extreme SW Connecticut look New Englandy but the pace of life is different than the rest of New England and they look to New York as their epicenter.

With that, Danbury locals definitely have a NYish accent.

[wickedripeplum]

CT, especially western CT clearly has cultural ties to NY. Does it also have cultural ties to the rest of New England? Yes. They have similar architecture and more importantly the area is divided into New England towns, which NY isn't.

But the longer commutes get and the more NYers move into CT the more tenuous the connection between CT and the rest of New England becomes.

Accents in New Haven and Hamden? Funny-never have heard them. Even I in eastern CT have no accent

As a side point, everyone has an accent, it's only a matter of what kind.