Why does everyone hate Salem? (Boston, Lynn: best town, rent, buying a home)

[Jerseypeach]

Originally Posted by LexWest

Salem is a cool place for young singles and couples, but others may complain it's overrun with students, dice after all, there is a school in town. (i.e. Salem State). Not to mention having it's kooky history with witchcraft and whatnot that some people may not like. And of course, there's crime here and there. But it is an interesting place with plenty of culture.

I'm kind've surprised you like Salem, given most of the other towns on your list, which are on the higher end, income-wise. Apart from having history, they cater to a different crowd. People wouldn't consider Salem as an alternative to Marblehead, or even Newburyport.

Even Salem and Andover are world's apart, despite being in the same county. Andover is a "picture perfect" affluent, family town with great schools that many aspire/desire to live (, despite having some to the issues of most well-to-do suburbs when privileged teens have too much time and money on their hands... ). It's a great town, but there's an obvious bias between the two.

I think your main issue is most people in your projected towns are likely to hold an unfavorable view of Salem, because they're not comparable. Someone from Saugus, or Peabody, however, would probably hold a more neutral, or better view of Salem.

Lexwest: The reason I think we like Salem along with the other towns we listed, is the quaint homes and charming downtown area. That's really what we are most invested in - we currently live/rent in Back Bay and absolutely love it, but affording the down payment to buy around here is a bit unattainable for us. Henceforth, our absolute top dollar to spend is $650k.

We're recently married and in our mid 20s with no kids. I am mostly concerned about schools for resale value, as I am totally fine with sending our kids to private school when that time comes. As previously mentioned in the thread, not all feel the same way and public school quality is a deal breaker.

So, pretty much, what matters most to us is easy (enough) access to Boston, and a vibrant town center. We love historic and charming character.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by robr2

For a NE sales rep, the downside of Portsmouth is the hassle of going to Manchester, Concord, and Vermont. 101 is the only way. I know it's not a horrible highway, but it's 25 miles of nothing.

I've had a vacation home at Killington since 1993 and have been a winter every-weekender since the early 1980's. The decade I lived in Portsmouth, I used 101. Compared to fighting Boston rush hour to escape to go skiing on a Friday, it was an easy cruise control drive to Manchester north of all the mayhem. Compared to fighting 128 or the Southeast Expressway, I'll take 101 any day. You also have the option of taking 4 across if you know there is going to be a problem on the 101 route.

[sparklingforest]

I lived in Salem and thought I'd really love it but didn't. Maybe it was too urban, too ticky-tac touristy, too unfriendly, or too difficult to get around. I think I would have liked it more without children. I still go there regularly and enjoy it much more as a visitor.

I know many professional, upper middle class couples with children who live in Salem and love it. Some send their kids to private, some Salem public, and some a combination. There are independent and Catholic private schools all along the Northshore where people send their kids. A warning... The reason people spend $$$ for a house in a top school district is because independent private schools are expensive! The lower grades start just shy of 20k and are mid 20's for the better schools. Middle schools are close to 30k and HS 35-45K. Catholics schools are much lower but it is a different experience.

Real estate in Salem still has not returned to peak pricing. I know a few people who would not be able to sell their house/condo for what they paid for it. The historic districts are nicest but not 100% gentrified. You will find a boarding house or slumlord rental on every block.

[FCMA]

Salem, Beverly, and Gloucester all strike me as superficially similar North Shore coastal cities, and desirable in terms of decent levels of vibrancy while not being over-gentrified, though in terms of location each has advantages and disadvantages. If I ever have a reason to leave the inland boons for the coast, I'd go to any of the three in a second, raise my kids there in the public schools, and wipe it in people's snobby faces when they still get in to good colleges and universities despite the "bad" schools. As a recovered teacher and gateway city native, I absolutely CANNOT STAND that prevalent attitude in the affluent corners of Massachusetts. People are basically throwing around the "bad" label when the district "quality" is not a reflection on the quality of teachers or quality of education offered in that district, and has everything to do with socioeconomic factors.

I'm SOOO happy for the affluent masses that you can afford to buy your way in to the "good" districts, but the way that the MA upper crust talk about what is "good" and "bad" seethes with classism towards people below the six to seven figure station and is completely insulting to teachers.

[traffic_lover]

Fcma: "Good" & "bad" labels are perception. And perception is reality when pricing real estate. Sorry.

[LexWest]

^Surprised, FCMA? That's what happens when you have several great/respectable colleges/universities in one area. There's so much demand and entitlement. Do people forget students come from all kinds of schools, even the average or mediocre ones? Cream does rise to the top.

JersyPeach, I think you have a great selection of towns. I just wanted you to recognize that Salem is on a different level than the rest. If that doesn't matter to you, then Salem is an OK choice.

[pennyone]

Originally Posted by traffic_lover

Fcma: "Good" & "bad" labels are perception. And perception is reality when pricing real estate. Sorry.

Yup. And he will reap the benefit of the price discrepancy and get a magnificent Victorian in Salem or another more affordable city for half or a third of what it would go for in an affluent town, have his kids go to school there, excel in it due to parental involvement in their lives and learning, have his kids get into great colleges (maybe even better than the colleges those kids from affluent towns get into) and life goes on....everyone is happy.

[Jerseypeach]

Originally Posted by sparklingforest

I lived in Salem and thought I'd really love it but didn't. Maybe it was too urban, too ticky-tac touristy, too unfriendly, or too difficult to get around. I think I would have liked it more without children. I still go there regularly and enjoy it much more as a visitor.

I know many professional, upper middle class couples with children who live in Salem and love it. Some send their kids to private, some Salem public, and some a combination. There are independent and Catholic private schools all along the Northshore where people send their kids. A warning... The reason people spend $$$ for a house in a top school district is because independent private schools are expensive! The lower grades start just shy of 20k and are mid 20's for the better schools. Middle schools are close to 30k and HS 35-45K. Catholics schools are much lower but it is a different experience.

Real estate in Salem still has not returned to peak pricing. I know a few people who would not be able to sell their house/condo for what they paid for it. The historic districts are nicest but not 100% gentrified. You will find a boarding house or slumlord rental on every block.

sparklingforest, as someone who enjoys what Salem had to offer in theory more then practice, do you have any town recommendations?

thanks for your insights! just curious - what do Catholic schools go for? Both my husband and I are Catholic and this would be a very practical middle ground for us.

[kingeorge]

Who has time to hate? And of all things spend time hating Salem?

Op you should spend more time in Salem, read Salem newspapers, talk to people there, and then decide. It is your $650K we are talking about. Be smart with your money, and dig deep to understand what you get for your money there.

Private schools are hard to get in! Those best, and most convenient private schools do not happen to your kids simply because you have nothing "against" them, and paying $20-45K a year. There is an admission process and screening, and it is often lot more complicated then just saying that your kids will go to one. This is why majority of people, when buying a home, are looking for best towns with good schools they can afford, just in case. Life happens while you are planning other things.

I would not spend your full budget in Salem, since this is one of the first places to sink in value if we hit a snag in RE market in the next 3 years. Start humble, buy something smaller and more manageable, and upgrade later if you are really happy there. Do not buy new build, big SF home in town where few families would show up for your open house, because of perceived school quality. Being underwater still happens to some people.

Good luck.

[bohemka]

If I were one half of a young couple I'd move to Salem in a second. Great town, nightlife, arts, gateway to Cape Ann, beaches, 30-minute train to Boston. If you are hell-bent on buying for the long-haul and really question the schools, there are a number of communities around Salem that, on paper, have better school systems. The North Shore offers a lot.