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I-91 actually has some other plans. Initially it could be eight different ways but it's going to be interesting. Above ground, under ground, on ground etc.
"I don't think you understand how Section 8 works. No landlord with privately owned housing units is obligated to take it."
Uh yeah about that. Recent lawsuits now say yes they do. I'm not saying I agree with it but unless you think you can take it to the supreme court then you have to at least negociate.
"In most affluent towns, nobody takes it. You're in dreamland if you think somebody with an apartment in Weston or Lexington is going to take a Section 8 tenant."
to a point they kinda already do with METCO.
"The affluent towns tend to have publicly funded elderly housing."
Um yeah about that. It stopped being just elderly people years ago and the MassNAHRO reforms with 2014 changed things.
"Their housing authority might manage a couple of family public housing properties. There will be virtually no privately owned Section 8 at all. You'll see the occasional 40B project where a developer who was shot down by the town pulls in the state to override town zoning ordinances, builds a few affordable housing units, and sells the rest at a huge profit. In the high end towns, that largely doesn't happen because the land is too expensive."
Which explains why Cambridge has one of the largest ones in the state. Granted it's very odd with what they are doing with private funding.
"The point of the state taking over the public housing waiting lists and maintaining a centralized waiting list is that metro-Boston inside the 495 belt is gentrifying and former Section 8 housing is getting converted to condos. There's pretty much zero turnover in public housing so the people booted out of Section 8 housing get relocated elsewhere in the state and that's almost always outside the 495 belt. They're landing in New Bedford, Fall River, and Western Mass."
Kinda sorta. The central list is still pretty new and frankly no towns can block people from moving to them. Section 8 is a rental voucher, nothing more nothing less. Outright units are what I'm talking about under housing authority administration. Also it should be noted that section 8 is not a right. It can be terminated as there are classes on how to start termination hearings. It can be taken away and sometimes is.
First St. Louis Landlord Sued for “Discriminating” Against Section 8 Tenant | Spark Rental
"Nor is St. Louis alone. Twelve states, plus dozens of cities ranging from Seattle to Los Angeles, Washington D.C. to Atlanta, Chicago to Philadelphia have all passed laws requiring landlords to accept Section 8 vouchers. Austin, TX passed a similar ordnance, which was challenged by the Austin Apartment Association.
In fact, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) passed a nationwide requirement earlier this year that landlords can’t even bar criminals from their rental units. While falling short of naming criminals a “protected class”, the new rule means that landlords have a harder time screening out criminals.
The HUD rule has similar racial motivation, contending that barring all applicants with a criminal record has a “disparate impact” on minorities. As such, blanket policies barring criminals are deemed a violation of Fair Housing Laws that protect minorities."
Calling criminals a protected class would not work. there were earlier cries years ago for to classify long term unemployed as such. I've heard far out ones of homeless being classified as a race to prevent discrimination etc. That won't hold up in court.
Again I'm not a liberal but any means but there is something to be said about attempting to concentrate poverty in various areas and acting as if that isn't going to eventually backfire.
Keep in mind the housing authorities are legally separate entities from the local governments. They are not subject to the budgets of them let alone have the same leadership. Any time you see "authority" it is legally separate. Water utilities, transit authorities, port authorities, municipal electric etc. In CT the airport authority is pushing to have a casino. They don't need local permission. Since housing authorities are already zoned they don't need to expand horizontally, they can go vertically. The state has significantly reduced the financial thresholds for public construction bids (149/149A, 30B and 3039M) Piece by piece by policy we're going to see an exodus of poorer people from urban areas to more suburban and rural. There are places in the Berkshires, Cape and south shore that would love to have more poorer and minorities to increase state aid. Otherwise these areas would have to do a prop 2 1/2 that no one wants (unless it's the 128 belt). This middle tier between gateway city and affluence is where it will go.
A landlord cannot outright say "we don't take section 8." However they can simply price their rent so high that no one on section 8 could ever afford the apartment. That is fully legal and is what happens just about anywhere in MA that isn't a complete ****hole. 40b developments are the exception because a certain percentage of the units are "low income."
"Also, Atlanta really isn't a coastal city. It's like saying Buffalo, NY is"
eh. Buffalo is a peninsula once you factor in the canal and the ponds. Redevelopment there is going well. If you want to see a sunset on a body of water on a daily basis it's the cheapest market to do so in the country.
I was more talking about that Atlanta is far from the ocean like Buffalo but they are in states touch the ocean. Not in terms of geography. The Great lakes are huge though.
I don't think you understand how Section 8 works. No landlord with privately owned housing units is obligated to take it. In most affluent towns, nobody takes it. You're in dreamland if you think somebody with an apartment in Weston or Lexington is going to take a Section 8 tenant. The affluent towns tend to have publicly funded elderly housing. Their housing authority might manage a couple of family public housing properties. There will be virtually no privately owned Section 8 at all. You'll see the occasional 40B project where a developer who was shot down by the town pulls in the state to override town zoning ordinances, builds a few affordable housing units, and sells the rest at a huge profit. In the high end towns, that largely doesn't happen because the land is too expensive.
The point of the state taking over the public housing waiting lists and maintaining a centralized waiting list is that metro-Boston inside the 495 belt is gentrifying and former Section 8 housing is getting converted to condos. There's pretty much zero turnover in public housing so the people booted out of Section 8 housing get relocated elsewhere in the state and that's almost always outside the 495 belt. They're landing in New Bedford, Fall River, and Western Mass.
See DM's post below as to how they get around it. Legally, however, MA is one of the few states where a private landlord cannot discriminate based on having a section 8 voucher. If a tenant asks if a landlord accepts section 8, and the LL says no, that's clear discrimination based on MA law. If a LL advertises saying "No section 8" that is clear discrimination and is unlawful in MA.
I've driven through Worcester at night. It doesn't scare me.
Exactly ... I love these threads about New England cities that lump them all together. Obviously, the people who group Worcester and Springfield together have never spent even a moment in Worcester.
Worcester needs work - as do ALL smaller NE cities, with the possible notable exception of Portland - but it still has many, many fully functioning neighborhoods. As an aside, I always find it fascinating that Providence is NEVER mentioned in these threads. I guess the PVD PR machine has done its work well, since Providence - outside of the East Side, Westminster/Federal Hill and downtown - is a dump equal to Springfield or Hartford. And, that isn't something I'm cheering. It's just simply a fact; the city has done precious little in the neighborhoods over the past 40+ years to enhance economic development, but I digress ...
Springfield has been in decline for my entire life and - like Waterbury, Pittsfield, et. al. - seems to have lost a reason for being.
Well Providence's good parts blow away most of those other cities good parts. I mean "outside of downtown"... downtown!
And the myth continues ... Ever been to the west side of Worcester? I'm not going to waste my time in a tit-for-tat, but Providence is as overrated (outside of the very confined areas I mentioned) as a city gets. And, the East Side of Providence has never changed fundamentally in my lifetime.
In fact, it's eerie how much Gano, Wickenden, Wayland Sq., etc. look as they did 30 years ago. Again, the work downtown - and particularly around the mall - has completely distorted the opinion of those who don't know Providence intimately (and that was the idea; kudos to the developers!). It has worked like a charm, since that is precisely what people see from 95 and 10. But Smith Hill, South Providence, Elmwood, Olneyville, Mt. Pleasant ... I could go on and on ... are ghosts of what they were 30 years ago.
Exactly ... I love these threads about New England cities that lump them all together. Obviously, the people who group Worcester and Springfield together have never spent even a moment in Worcester.
Worcester needs work - as do ALL smaller NE cities, with the possible notable exception of Portland - but it still has many, many fully functioning neighborhoods. As an aside, I always find it fascinating that Providence is NEVER mentioned in these threads. I guess the PVD PR machine has done its work well, since Providence - outside of the East Side, Westminster/Federal Hill and downtown - is a dump equal to Springfield or Hartford. And, that isn't something I'm cheering. It's just simply a fact; the city has done precious little in the neighborhoods over the past 40+ years to enhance economic development, but I digress ...
Springfield has been in decline for my entire life and - like Waterbury, Pittsfield, et. al. - seems to have lost a reason for being.
Worcester has some lovely neighborhoods, reminds me of the nicer areas of Newton. I've never seen anything of the equivalant in Providence.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rranger
And the myth continues ... Ever been to the west side of Worcester? I'm not going to waste my time in a tit-for-tat, but Providence is as overrated (outside of the very confined areas I mentioned) as a city gets. And, the East Side of Providence has never changed fundamentally in my lifetime.
In fact, it's eerie how much Gano, Wickenden, Wayland Sq., etc. look as they did 30 years ago. Again, the work downtown - and particularly around the mall - has completely distorted the opinion of those who don't know Providence intimately (and that was the idea; kudos to the developers!). It has worked like a charm, since that is precisely what people see from 95 and 10. But Smith Hill, South Providence, Elmwood, Olneyville, Mt. Pleasant ... I could go on and on ... are ghosts of what they were 30 years ago.
Yes, I visited and toured Worcester several times as I considered buying there. Spent time there this summer considering it. The West side of Worcester has nothing going on.
I work in Westborough (most days, some days in Boston) and I've crossed Worcester of my list of places I'm considering buying and Providence is near or at the top. Malden is another consideration.
BTW, I am in Olneyville nearly monthly as there is a great music/arts scene there.
I don't see any reason to focus on the areas I don't want to live in or buy, sure they might be bad, great, I have no reason to go there. But there are places I like to go and spend time in in Providence. I can't say that for Worcester, outside of the Armsby Abbey and an occasional show at Ralphs. More than a few people I work with in Westborough commute from Providence and all love it. I can't say the same for Worcester.
PS: It's a dick move to call other people's first hand experiences a myth. The arts / music / single adult scene in Providence blows Worcester's away.
To be frank I don't believe in good or bad places...just people. A triple decker has never given me a hard time. I've met people from some upscale areas I will never again wish to speak to or work with ever again, nor will I give them a reference. But I do know some in more rougher areas I'd take the day off to see.
I don't know if I'd call Providence overrated. I mean for the price it's nice and you have to admit by any metric they have dramatically improved things over the past 30-40 years. No one in their right mind wanted to go there in the 60's and 70's.
"A landlord cannot outright say "we don't take section 8." However they can simply price their rent so high that no one on section 8 could ever afford the apartment. That is fully legal and is what happens just about anywhere in MA that isn't a complete ****hole. 40b developments are the exception because a certain percentage of the units are "low income."
Well yeah but the other thing is cheaper places are going up faster than those that are already up there. Rumor has it a rowhouse was picked up in springfield for 200K. Not just one house...the whole block! There's demo work being performed on empty buildings that have been there decades. Like I mentioned before the tornado put the concept of time scarcity into people. If you don't take care what you have forget it. There's a section 8 program that puts a down payment on a house but this is the only part of the state where it can work. I openly say if you want to stay this is the only real way to do so if you are on a lower income. Everything else coming up is full market rate. We're really going to see some floodgates open up once the flights to europe start. Can't fill those jobs..visa holders BOOM! there you go. Flight to Dublin, flight to Bradley, 20 minute ride to springfield. No customs needed on landing since it was preflight. I've already met people from Seattle, Ireland, Memphis and Lebanon in the past few months that have come here for work (medical and manufacturing). When things get too expensive then capital flows to where it cane be used. Out of the 128 belt and into 495, out of 495 and further out. Many metros are like this. We're going to see more of a trend of businesses coming back to cities from suburb and rural areas. Suburban corporate parks might have been more of a 90's fad. Either you court younger people now or later and later will cost more as there's more competition. In terms of development I'd be more concerned with the Cape and to a point the Berkshires..
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