Any former CA natives moved to New England and loved/hated it? (Boston: real estate, insurance)

[Dragondog]

First of all I was born in the Washington DC area and come from working class parents via Pittsburgh PA
I guess I got my 'affected attitude and accent' there......

You conveniently fluff aside a few bible belters as 'having no impact' on Texas culture. Well the state is a solid 'red state'- no? And outside of perhaps Austin, El Paso it votes very GOP-no? Texas has no hate crime laws- you say marriage is 'not important' and such laws are 'really worthless' Well should anyone judge on that issue? To some gay persons it MAY be important- and if they decide to marry- or have a civil union- should not they be allowed to do it? I certainly would feel offended by the local church group saying I was a 'sinner' Or being used by the local right wing candidate running for office using gays as a scapegoat and fear message as many do from a red state like Texas in rallying 'the base.'

Texas is perhaps the most conservative of all states- I was watching a documentary last week on the assassination of JFK- before the event he told his aides- well we have to watch out here, we are in 'nut country'.

Sadly to say little has changed in Texas. I have a dear friend in El Paso- who says it is the most liberal city in the state- yet he still worked as an administrator at the University of NM at Las Cruces- Saying it was more 'comfortable in NM being gay.'

Texas does excel in some areas-it Ranks near the bottom in quality of its public schools, environment (which is horrible) quality of life for kids, has uncontrolled sprawl, high crime rate, horrible gun laws. Texas I believe still enforces its sodomy laws- and has no anti discrimination laws against gays and lesbians. In all fairness only a handful of states do, all the New England states, New Jersey, California, Washing state, Wisconsin, Illinois to name same-but NOT Texas. The deep south and its 'bible belt' culture seem to be the least progressive states of all.

The local culture is rabid right wing reactionary- and yes the Liberal for Texas city of Austin may be an island of 'hope' the rest of the state is not a liberal bastion of peace, or tolerance. I would rather behave in my so called 'stuffy New England manner'- as you say and talk with my ' affected accent' - yet have the knowledge that the laws protect me- instead of guessing from one day to the next who is going to bash or destroy me. Garish Christmas lights are not important to me- legal rights and freedom not to be bashed are.

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by CelticLion

You conveniently fluff aside a few bible belters as 'having no impact' on Texas culture. Well the state is a solid 'red state'- no?

Oh, of course you're correct!!! I don't think you're reading my comments the way I intend them.

First, Texas is bigger than many nations including France, so it's obviously diverse and has several distinct regions. So of course there are areas, especially north and east, that are extremely conservative and Bible-belt (with the exception of pockets of progressives in Dallas and Houston, no surprises there...)

Second, we may be using different definitions of "conservative."

Third, you're taking me WAY too seriously. I'm being playful. And the net result is that you're kind of demonstrating my point about the difference between the southwest and New England by taking things so seriously. It's just a chat forum! But I will seriously address some of your other points.

Originally Posted by CelticLion

...Texas has no hate crime laws- you say marriage is 'not important' and such laws are 'really worthless' Well should anyone judge on that issue? To some gay persons it MAY be important...

Lots to respond to.

1. I don't believe in "hate crime" laws because I believe they are "thought crime" laws. I think hate crimes should fall under other categories that need to be beefed up, such as "making terroristic threats" (e.g., cross-burnings), anti-stalking laws (which are too weak everywhere), and the basic laws against assault, murder, etc. But outlawing "hate" is a scary concept, very 1984 in my opinion. How can you read the mind of the perpetrator?

And why is it worse for someone to scream "Faag!" while beating up a gay person rather than just beating them up? Both crimes are the same. I believe in the First Amendment and the right to say anything we want about any group. Wouldn't you prefer to know what people are thinking instead of censoring anything you find offensive and punishing it with special laws? I see your viewpoint as being the more conservative because you're advocating increased government control of our private lives along with censorship.

2. I didn't say marriage is "worthless." I spoke my point of view, which remains apathetic. Of course I would vote for gay marriage rights if given the chance, but not with any passionate interest. And I support the right of individual churches to discriminate on any basis they choose. Again, I do not favor government intrusion into private matters unless people are actively hurting others. This has a lot of grey area so I would probably agree with you in some cases that the gov't needs to step in, such as a small town with only one church and one gay couple who want to worship in that church --- they're kinda SOL if that church bans them from entering. I can see an argument for outside intervention where power is overwhelmingly against the minority, but not in cases where everyone has access to power. I'm rambling and eager to read your response because I don't think I've expressed this complex idea very well.

3. Yes, Austin is an island and it's way more progressive than El Paso. EP votes Democratic mainly because it's a border town with a Hispanic majority. But when Texas passed an amendment to the state constitution defining marriage as "between a man and woman", the only county in the entire state to vote against it was Travis County --- basically, Austin. Most of central Austin voted against the amendment by at least 80%, up to 93% in the most progressive precincts. So I'm not just seeing Austin as progressive in contrast to the surrounding conservatism, it's more progressive than most cities in California or New England as well.

More in the next post, it was too long to be accepted by the software settings so I had to break my response into 2 parts. I'm a blabbermouth. Or blabberfingers?

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by CelticLion

Texas does excel in some areas-it Ranks near the bottom in quality of its public schools, environment (which is horrible) quality of life for kids, has uncontrolled sprawl, high crime rate, horrible gun laws. Texas I believe still enforces its sodomy laws

That last comment isn't true. There is only one case I know of where a sodomy law was enforced in the last couple years and that was in Georgia. I think our law got tossed out by the courts, not sure, I'd have to research it. Most of central and West Texas is "live and let live." You're not here, you're reading stories and listening to stereotypes. I've lived in San Francisco, Berkeley, LA and Amherst, and I assure you that while it's more conservative and religious here, it doesn't FEEL oppressive the way you're portraying it.

Yes, the schools and many other things are bad here. Yes, it's a state full of ignorance, no question about that. I wish we were more like Vermont. But then we wouldn't be Texas and there's a lot to love about this place that's hard to define to someone who isn't open to experiencing it without preconceptions. People are very friendly, it's laid-back, but I'm only talking about my region and NOT about the Panhandle or deep east TX, those are different worlds! In the same way, I wouldn't lump Danville, CT together with Northampton, MA, even though they're as close to each other as Austin is to San Antonio. We get labeled like we're one giant blob of ignorant redneck bigoted hicks who hate gays, minorities, and anyone who doesn't want prayer in schools. Well, there are over 20 million Texans and we're from all over the world, we represent a huge diversity of cultures and opinions and just happen to have a voting majority of conservatives.

Bush won the last election in Texas by a smaller margin than he did in the majority of California counties. California is "blue" by virtue of the LA and San Francisco metro areas. Much of the rest of the state is red.

Originally Posted by CelticLion

The deep south and its 'bible belt' culture seem to be the least progressive states of all.

Mostly true. Add the plains states north through Nebraska, plus most of the Rockie Mountain states. The reddest states are actually NE, UT, and ID. But those will gradually change because of the massive influx of people from other areas. The south is likely to remain the dominant stronghold of conservative religious politics, no argument there.

Originally Posted by CelticLion

...I would rather behave in my so called 'stuffy New England manner'- as you say and talk with my ' affected accent' - yet have the knowledge that the laws protect me- instead of guessing from one day to the next who is going to bash or destroy me. Garish Christmas lights are not important to me- legal rights and freedom not to be bashed are.

Wow, lighten up! You're being very defensive and I meant nothing negative about anything I said! They're mere observations, people can think whatever they like. I certainly never implied that civil rights are less important than Christmas lights

Come on, have more fun, tease me a little or something. I'm not attacking New England, I LOVE the place!!!

[nr216]

Dougnaie: I was born in Beverly Hills and grew up in Palos Verdes, until my mother went through exactly what you're going through and decided she did not want to raise me in Southern California. Everything you've mentioned about California I've heard her say repeatedly. So, in 3rd grade we moved to a large antique farmhouse in a small New Hampshire town. I am now 27, very healthy and happy, and I am thankful for the childhood I had. Looking back I can see that my California childhood friends were 8 going on 24, but my NH childhood friends were 8 going on, like, 12. MUCH better.

Seriously, it's harder for me to give you an answer, since due to my age my perception was a bit skewed, but I remember the biggest transition (apart from the weather, which I'll address in a mintue) for my mother was the social reticence here. People are MUCH less likely to say hi, smile or even make eye contact with passersby in the supermarket aisles. I think it can feel a bit isolating at first, but it's something you get used to as you realize that it's not that people are rude, it's simply a lack of that shiny veneer you're so used to.

Honestly, I like when people feel comfortable smiling and saying hi to strangers, and I don't feel that friendliness is equivalent to phoniness, but back East people are simply a bit more reserved.

I'd imagine Connecticut may be less reserved than NH, however. I don't know Connecticut all that well, but it seems amazing. Close to NYC, but also relatively close to Boston (an absolutely beautiful city filled with culture and history. I love Boston.) Definitely do your major shopping in tax free New Hampshire, and definitely take the time to explore northern NH, Vermont, Maine, and even Quebec and Montreal.

Regarding the weather, things are definitely changing, what with global warming, but in general I have spent every year but one in New England since I was 8 and my honest take on the weather in New England is this: Winter (usually, not so much this year, however) starts somewhere around November. It gets cold, sometimes bitter, but when it snows for the first time, it's absolutely amazing. The winter lasts a long time here, and even the snow starts to lose its novelty. The shoveling, the roads, the driving, it's all obnoxious, I won't lie. However, as daunting as it may seem, when you're in the middle of it, it's simply a part of life. And as annoying as the winter may be, there is nothing better than coming inside to a cozy kitchen when you've been out shoveling snow. It's a very snuggly season. I recommend finding someone who can truly teach you how to drive through snow. It's something you need to learn how to do.

Winter lasts until around late Feb/Early March, then March and into April are where this "mud season" occurs. It's not that there's a ridiculous amount of mud, it's just that it's still cold, but since the snow is over, it's not pretty. I'll be honest, March is the bane of my existance. April rains a lot, but then here's where I disagree that there is no Spring in New England. At the end of April, and in May, all of a sudden the sun comes out, the air smells GORGEOUS, the trees start to grow leaves, and it's like the treasure you get at the end of a very long journey. It's absolutely the most wonderful feeling, that first day when you wake up, walk to your car and feel glad to be alive because you get to experience this weather.

Summer happens in June, July and August, heading into September. It's hot, pretty humid, and the mosquitos can be pretty annoying, but it's still absolutely beautiful. Lush, lush trees and bushes, flowers everywhere, it's really nice. Lots of opportunity to go to the beach (where the water is still very cold, mind you), to go to lakes, swimming holes in rivers, etc. There's a LOT to do in the summer in New England, lots of gorgeous mountains to hike, summer theater, quaint little towns to go shopping in, etc.

In mid-September through October is the best season of all, Fall. Brisk, clean days, the trees are on fire with foliage, the smell of wood burning, pumpkin pies, etc. It really is gorgeous. This is when you should take road trips through Vermont. Even the major highways are gorgeous in Vermont. The only downside to fall is that it's leading back into winter, but then the Holidays come, it starts to snow and it all feels just right.

Yes, the winters are long, and yes the people can be very anti-social, but there is no place like New England. I think that even if you spend a couple years here and decide you absolutely can't live with it, there's no way you'll regret your decision, because there's no way you can hate all of it. I definitely recommend moving here, giving it a shot.

Good luck!

[dougnaie]

nr216, if you are not a writer, you should consider it! Really wonderful description - thanks! It is so hard to have no frame of reference for what people experience living in a certain place, but you certainly have offered a lot of insight into living in New England, and it helps more than you know. To me, moving seems like sort of a strange herculean task to take on, but once you are in the new place, life sort of takes over. As you say about the annoying parts of winter weather and the associated tasks, it's part of life. Like when I drive on the 405 freeway here, and it takes me an hour to go 15 miles, it just is sort of the way it is.

I think your mom was probably ahead of her time. How cool that she just up and made a huge transition like that! From PV to a farm in NH is a big change, but it sounds like it was the right one for your family. I am more than certain that I can handle the logistics of the move itself, it's just afterward when the new reality sets in that I worry about. Thankfully having a child in the house makes it all easier, in my opinion, because it offers an opportunity to meet people at school etc. I have noticed the reserve of the people in the area we are considering, and at first thought it was me, but now realize that it is just a different sort of culture, and I may need to work a bit harder than I do here.

Your suggestion about having someone teach me too drive in snow is a good one. The idea of having to drive to school in a snowstorm makes me very nervous, and the idea of black ice topic nearly puts me in a coma! Obviously, driving in unfamiliar conditions will take some practice! Going through my day to day activities in snow seems daunting, especially with all the necessary clothes associated with the weather. I do not even own a coat here, and can see that Lands' End may become my new shopping addiction. Great suggestion about shopping in NH - it's tips like that that are a huge help, because I would have no way of knowing otherwise.

I feel fairly certain that the move will be the right one, it is just getting from here to there that is a little overwhelming. Thanks for all of your insights. The more information I get, the more confidently I can move forward (or eastward!)

[deeptrance]

Originally Posted by nr216

...there is no place like New England. I think that even if you spend a couple years here and decide you absolutely can't live with it, there's no way you'll regret your decision, because there's no way you can hate all of it. I definitely recommend moving here, giving it a shot.

I hope he/she reads your post, it's very informative and a great summary of the good and bad. And I totally agree with your final comment (quoted above). I will never regret having lived in western MA for 2 years, it was a fantastic experience and a part of me will always be there in my heart.

[puffle]

Originally Posted by dougnaie

nr216, if you are not a writer, you should consider it! Really wonderful description - thanks! It is so hard to have no frame of reference for what people experience living in a certain place, but you certainly have offered a lot of insight into living in New England, and it helps more than you know. To me, moving seems like sort of a strange herculean task to take on, but once you are in the new place, life sort of takes over. As you say about the annoying parts of winter weather and the associated tasks, it's part of life. Like when I drive on the 405 freeway here, and it takes me an hour to go 15 miles, it just is sort of the way it is.

I think your mom was probably ahead of her time. How cool that she just up and made a huge transition like that! From PV to a farm in NH is a big change, but it sounds like it was the right one for your family. I am more than certain that I can handle the logistics of the move itself, it's just afterward when the new reality sets in that I worry about. Thankfully having a child in the house makes it all easier, in my opinion, because it offers an opportunity to meet people at school etc. I have noticed the reserve of the people in the area we are considering, and at first thought it was me, but now realize that it is just a different sort of culture, and I may need to work a bit harder than I do here.

Your suggestion about having someone teach me too drive in snow is a good one. The idea of having to drive to school in a snowstorm makes me very nervous, and the idea of black ice topic nearly puts me in a coma! Obviously, driving in unfamiliar conditions will take some practice! Going through my day to day activities in snow seems daunting, especially with all the necessary clothes associated with the weather. I do not even own a coat here, and can see that Lands' End may become my new shopping addiction. Great suggestion about shopping in NH - it's tips like that that are a huge help, because I would have no way of knowing otherwise.

I feel fairly certain that the move will be the right one, it is just getting from here to there that is a little overwhelming. Thanks for all of your insights. The more information I get, the more confidently I can move forward (or eastward!)

Do you mind sharing where in Ct. you are thinking of moving to? We were pretty set on Boston, but then branched out to Ct. and New York State. Totally confused now. Been researching Fairfield County, New Haven County and upstate New York, keeping Newton as a base.

[dougnaie]

We are set on Essex or Lyme/Old Lyme as we have family in the area and have spent many summers there. I also like Madison and Guilford. They seem younger and a bit more family friendly, although I am not sure. We really want to be close to the water, so anything along the CT river or the LI Sounds is appealing. I really love the entire area!

[Dragondog]

good luck in your move east Dougnaie

I am sure it is pleasant today in California- not bad here- 50 degrees, turning sharply colder here Friday 28 degrees- overnight to 20. 30s Saturday, before 45-50 again Sunday and early next week.

No snow yet-some flurries, thats about it.

You will love the Connecticut shore east of New Haven- much peace, nice beaches and parks and very pleasant towns. A great lifestyle- and a milder climate then you think.

[Deedle]

Don't move here! The people are so unfriendly!!! No one ever smiles. Acting rudely to a stranger is considered normal behavior. It is a completely different world than CA. We are trying to get out.