Any former CA natives moved to New England and loved/hated it? (Boston: relocation)

[beantown2]

B alt!

Good points. Re the T, the thing to remember is all the commuter rails that fan from North and South Stations--effectively extending the range of the whole system.

Re Boston-tiny: yes, OK, include spread out to metro areas like Brighton/Brookline and it gets pretty big. And agree, dense in numbers. But if you think of the rough "axis" of Mass. Ave. over to Quincy Market, or Harvard Square to the South End--with Copley Plaza, Comm. Ave/Newbury Street, the Common/Public Gardens, Tremont Street and the Boston Ballet/Boston Center for the Arts, etc. all within walking distance if you want to connect by T, Boston is an incredibly easy city to navigate. Thus "tiny."

You are right about condo market: it's hanging in there.

Get this: in 1978 I was taking classes in the South End. Very dicey area. Dirt cheap. Only store was a small mom-and-pop tiny grocery store. Otherwise, close to derelict. All those lovely buildings with their wrought iron courtyards were going for a song: an entire row house for less than $10K!!!! If you had the purchase price and the guts to fully gut one and start from scratch, you had a tremendous opportunity. But the neighborhood was teetering. Wish I'd done it--but at the time, could have been a disaster. God bless Boston Ballet and BCA--they saved a neighborhood! Now becoming even more gentrified; drawing in families!!!

Re winter, if you have a car but no deeded space, it's a nightmare in a storm. If you have the cash base for symphony, ballet, theatre, restaurant experimenting, sports at the Fleet Center, etc., it's a fun town--there's a lot to do. On a limited budget, it can be a dreary hassle--only so many freebies: what there are are good, but limited. Twelve Cambridge years did it for me: when it was time for kids, the burbs beckoned! Love my native Boston, but not in winter, and not for kids, unless as enrichment, special fun expeditions.

Two brothers there love it; sister and family have a pied-a-terre, too (v. lucky!). Great town-none like it!

[b_alt]

I agree with the previous posts. It is the ice that can linger and be a problem in certain areas, especially on sidewalks. One solution is Yak-Trax, which can be purchased at outdoor sporting goods stores (REI, EMS). They are like snow chains for your shoes. And the commuter rail is great for commuters from the outer suburbs or for coming into town for the day since parking downtown is getting more difficult.

One thing about city vs suburb living in Boston. People who live in one place tend to enjoy the other. The city core is generally pretty, green and safe, and therefore feels somewhat suburban compared to some cities. And the "suburbs" are actually small villages that have a lot of history themselves, and so they are well worth visiting. Some of my favorites are Concord (Walden Pond, Old North Bridge, authors homes, etc), Lincoln (De Cordova Museum), Wellesley (College), Hamilton and Wenham (Horse country), Ipswich (Old homes, Crane Beach), Newburyport (Old downtown), Marblehead (Very old downtown on the water), Salem, Hingham, Cohasset, etc. In fact most of the suburbs are worth visiting or at least driving through, they are so nice.

But except for a few areas that are not fixed-up, things are rather expensive (just not compared to CA). It helps if you like to walk around and people watch, take pictures of things, or just hang out drinking coffee or eating ice cream. These activities remain affordable.

Actually, this is where the old mill towns shine. They are less well kept but have cheaper housing and restaurants, and retain some of their former charm. Plus, some have interesting ethnic enclaves, similar to old industrial towns in the UK.

Just don't come for the constant sunshine, humidity-free warm weather, and lack of mosquitos. You will be disappointed. (I have to include these so as not to paint too rosy a picture. God forbid everyone move here.)

[ChunkyMonkey]

Originally Posted by beantown2

4) Just don't come here without a job or VERY good prospects for one: the entire state economy tanked post 9/11 and hasn't recovered--we're in a major population drain. The brain trust in high tech and banking left or is going fast; now the blue collars are going too. That's the bad news. The good news is that if you are employable and plan to stay awhile, you are in a buy-low/maybe sell high prospect. The last time things were this hard in the state no one thought we'd climb out. We did--it took about ten years, but we did.

Boston and Massachusetts has seen a population increase according to revised Census data albeit slowly. So, that is a misconception. Also, the "brain drain" is highly exaggerated since the colleges are expanding enrollment which results in a "brain gain". Probably a wash.

Also, the Mass. economy actually surged in the first quarter of this year to 4.7 percent, nearly quadrupling the national growth rate of 1.3 percent. The state also added an average of 5,000 jobs a month in the first quarter. If you are in the biotech, pharmaceutical field. You'll all set. Also, general unemployment rate for 2007 is 4.4 as compared to the U.S. at 4.5. Seems like we are turning the corner.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...in_mass_soars/

Unemployment Rate
http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ma.htm

Revised census figures
http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas..._were_winners/

[nooneknowsmyname]

Originally Posted by Teerich

I will agree with you on the expense factor of BART. Especially when you add on the parking fees, too. Absolutely out of hand. But I had no problem with the timing of BART. Plenty of trains. Just need to learn the different color lines and where to transfer. No different from the T. Except that BART is plusher, larger and much cleaner than the T. I wish both BART AND the T ran 24 hours, but for the T it hardly matters since most places out here seem to shut down at 9 pm anyway (except Borders and Barnes & Noble, of course).

One the big difference between the T and BART is when they were constructed. Like NY, Chicago, and Philadelphia, Boston's public transportation is much older, built at the turn of the century through the 1920s and 1930s . In contract, Atlanta (MARTA), DC (METRO) and SF Bay Area (BART) were built 20-30 years ago and as a result are much plusher, larger and cleaner, maily because they are much newer. I've lived in 3 cities with older transit systems and 2 with newer transit systems and am aware of the benefits/liabilities of new versus old.
But, I have to disagree with your comment about there being plenty of trains. The fact that some lines simply stop running after a certain hour or on holidays is evidence that the BART is primarily a commuter train and not a real mass transit system designed get people out of their cars. Recently, on KQED (radio station) there was a show devoted to public transportation in the SF Bay area, which seem to have been broadcast in response to the big truck accident on 880 that knocked 880 and 580 out of commission for a week. A representative from BART was on the program and there were many callers who complained about BART and who compared it to the mass transit systems in Chicago, Philly, NY, & Boston and said thay by comparison BART just didn't cut it. The BART spokesperson tried to defend BART but wasn't able to convince the callers that BART could compare because the callers just weren't buying it. As far as the T and BART not running 24 hours, I agree. My spouse says that there are only 2 real mass transit systems in the US: NY and Chicago as they are the only 2 that run 24 hours.

[beantown2]

Yo, ChunkyMonkey!

I really hope you are right. But the first link you cite (Boston Globe) talks about a "DRAMATIC" turnaround, and at the bottom of the article, notes the recent out-migration/population loss--which at the end of 2006 was still quite serious. We don't know if that turnaround is the real thing yet. The biotech and pharmaceutical industries are looking for pretty highly-educated talent: post-docs, research scientists, senior engineers. Thus, a very narrow part of the general population. By contrast, teachers are getting laid off by the hundreds in all parts of the state. The turn in education is a long way off, as is a more general prosperity. The average small town hasn't felt any changes yet.

Re students, the influx is primarily for the academic year, and students are primarily consumers, not producers. They are a "brain-gain" in the making. ...I worked at MIT for twelve years, and I live in a college town now...love students, but they're not the ones doing the hiring, and the colleges aren't expanding their support staffs that much.

Agree with b alt about every town s/he mentioned: know them all. Live on the North Shore--by the way, Beverly is great!!! On the water, affordable, college town, sailing town, funky/cool, walkable, safe downtown, good shops, becoming a restaurant mecca, on commuter rail to Boston, and a good jumping off spot for area exploration; also has terrific elementary schools (ALL renovated in the last five-six years: beautiful), crappy middle/high school buildings but great teachers; lots of AP subjects--and new middle and high schools to be built within five years: plans approved, architects hired, shovels will hit the dirt within the next year/eighteen months. Ditto on b alt's observation about the old mill towns: also know the Merrimack Valley really well (grew up there in a farm town across the river from Lawrence). Despite the bad press, Lowell, Lawrence, Haverhill (and outside the Valley, Lynn) have some really terrific stuff going on: Lynn and Lawrence have HUGE arts communities, and conversion of mill space into artists' lofts and luxury condos is quite amazing. Despite the grunge factor, if you know the neighborhoods and are into multi-ethnic/multi-lingual populations, these cities are humming. I love Lawrence: go there a lot. There is a thriving indie film community in Lynn and Lawrence; in one mill loft in Lawrence a few years ago a guy who painted the scene drops for La Scala (yup, La Scala) held down most of the top floor of an old mill, and there are huge arts communities/centers in both towns. But they are not where I'd start out: I'd explore them first.

At any rate, your post is great--optimism is overdue. So can we say "Go Sox"???

[b_alt]

Beantown2,

Funny you should mention Beverly. It and Manchester have my favorite stretch of coastline in MA (from Endicott east along 127). Very old New England, with a few huge new houses. But the town is so diverse, I couldn't think of how to describe it it a few words. It's like several villages put together with a town in the middle. So I removed it from my list, lest I give someone the wrong impression.

I agree, though, it is well worth a visit or to live. And the commuter rail makes it easy to get to Boston.

[puffle]

Originally Posted by dougnaie

We are set on Essex or Lyme/Old Lyme as we have family in the area and have spent many summers there. I also like Madison and Guilford. They seem younger and a bit more family friendly, although I am not sure. We really want to be close to the water, so anything along the CT river or the LI Sounds is appealing. I really love the entire area!

Where did you move to Dougnaie?

[ChunkyMonkey]

Originally Posted by beantown2

Yo, ChunkyMonkey!

I really hope you are right. But the first link you cite (Boston Globe) talks about a "DRAMATIC" turnaround, and at the bottom of the article, notes the recent out-migration/population loss--which at the end of 2006 was still quite serious. We don't know if that turnaround is the real thing yet. The biotech and pharmaceutical industries are looking for pretty highly-educated talent: post-docs, research scientists, senior engineers. Thus, a very narrow part of the general population. By contrast, teachers are getting laid off by the hundreds in all parts of the state. The turn in education is a long way off, as is a more general prosperity. The average small town hasn't felt any changes yet.

Yes, it's not a population boom by any stretch of the imagination. A few things to be optimistic, census estimates are just that, estimates and are based on several factors that are biased against older cities with lots of housing conversions. I remember reading somewhere how the population seems to jump dramatically when the census 2000 numbers came out for Boston. This was because the census estimates were often off based. That said, I think Boston's population is generally flat not growing tremendously which I think is a good thing. We need to solve our housing prices first. That is the critical problem facing the state. If we have a huge influx of people, that will make it even harder to achieve.
http://www.gothamgazette.com/article//20020501/5/592

I also agree that the employment is rather catered toward the higher end spectrum. However, jobs are jobs and with the greater influx of jobs and commerce will come other more middle class jobs.

Don't believe in everything you read in the press. They often harp on the negatives to sell their papers. For example, when John Hancock was bought it was the end of the world. No one mentioned that the company Manulife from Canada actually opened its headquarters in South Boston. The same thing with Gillette, no one mentioned the hundreds of millions that have been invested to enlarge the manufacturing facility in Boston. Fleet was bought, but no one emphasized that Bank of America moved some major divisions to Boston after the merger. Sure we lost some jobs, but it is not as bleak as the media says.

[dougnaie]

HI Puffle -

Thanks for asking. I am still on the west coast, although my husband will be going to NY in July and doing weekends in the Old Lyme area. Unfortunately, my sister has had a recurrence in her cancer, and I do not want to leave her during her treatment...funny how life is. When you finally make a decision, things change. Thanks for asking!

[lorilou]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Hey dougnaie

what deeptrance said was pretty on target- New England geographically juts out into the Atlantic- and seems really isolated from the rest of the USA- it in fact has more in common with western Europe (which is only 6 hours away)then Indiana-by far. The only thing we in Connecticut have in common with the heartland is language (and there are severe differences even there) and a dollar bill. That is it.

Yeah there are some stuffy people here, that are real pains in the as*-
But there are some real nice honest decent folk as well-

The culture here has a strong European slant- because of the closeness geographically to Europe, and the immigrants who came here. Nonetheless there are some real odd balls and nuts here that are into self expression as well. The region is very 'aged' compared to the rest of the USA- and those 'old world shadows' hang very heavy in the air.

Not everyone wears tweed jackets, smokes a pipe and is 'traditional'.
Boston- as old as it is -is a hotbed of innovation and liberal ideas despite the rather conservative 'social orientation'.

Rose Kennedy used to run naked at pool and ocean parties on the Cape and Palm beach- but still kept that stoic New England demeanor.

New England is 'ancient' - but pulsing with change and new ideas- thats the cool part- but tradition remains very strong here. We do welcome outsiders- especially Californians.

Whatever decision you make - one thing is here you will see a large drop in your stress level compared to California. You will have to adjust to the climatic conditions even if you decide on mild south eastern Connecticut.

In the end I think you will be surprised by the vitality here- with solitude and peace. There is great sushi, Fantastic Pizza and even not bad Mexican.

I'm a Texan living in MA...PLEASE, TELL ME...where's the "not bad Mexican" food? Still searching in desperation! (<:
I do agree with the above posts...New Englanders are socially reserved and perhaps less animated...if you have a demonstrative sense of humor (like I do), you will either be embraced by those who have only seen this type of behavior on TV... or stared at with dismay...it can go either way. I just make sure to invite the fun ones over for margaritas and smile furtively at the dismayed. There are definitely some quality folks up here; they have good intentions and ideals. But on a Friday night, I must admit that I miss the old festival nights of tequila drinking, poker playing, al fresco dining, barefoot evenings, and raucous abandon of my former life. It's the carefree laughter and easy-going demeanor that you will miss the most...That and Mexican food is what I have yet to find. Good luck! Lorilou