Rail to western mass is the only expansion... (Boston, Worcester: construction, maintenance)

[mdovell]

Old Lyme money pretty much blocked the expansion of upgraded Acela rail from Boston to NYC.
https://ctmirror.org/2017/07/12/feds...nal-rail-plan/

Now here's the thing in looking at the federal plan there's a bit left out of here.

Worcester for lack of a better term is isolated. Boston can go to New Haven, Springfield can go to New Haven but Worcester can only go to Boston. To go to say Worcester to NYC means to go to Boston so that would be backtracking. It makes more sense to link Worcester to Springfield (and in effect Boston to Springfield in the process) to get Worcester faster access to NYC and at the same time provide a second track for Boston to NYC. To cut off the second largest city in the state and region doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Boston to NYC even with the Acela is the same time frame as Springfield to NYC with a regular train.

Also see page 39
"While the geographic focus of the New Haven to Providence Capacity Planning Study is in
Connecticut and Rhode Island, outcomes from the study will necessarily influence passenger
rail services north of Hartford to Springfield and north of Providence to Boston. As such, the
FRA expects that Connecticut and Rhode Island will engage with Massachusetts and other
appropriate stakeholders, to identify and address how the New Haven to Providence
Capacity Planning Study may address future rail services to Springfield and/or physical
changes to the Hartford/Springfield Line and improved service from Providence to Boston"

Having two major routes between regions is not that unheard of. Mass has both the pike and rt 2. If rt 2 was shut down you'd get a fair amount of traffic going down and then to the pike in both directions.

It makes sense given the ridership to have two routes incase maintenance shuts down one.

I'm not saying there has to be "high speed rail from Boston to Springfield but even just regular rail service of say two hours would be efficient. There already is one rail a day that goes there but the frequency and time do not make it efficient.

[massnative71]

As you seem to indicate, it would only make sense if it were high speed AND it would connect with NYC as well. Just a Boston-Springfield would be a dud.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by massnative71

As you seem to indicate, it would only make sense if it were high speed AND it would connect with NYC as well. Just a Boston-Springfield would be a dud.

How do you get from Springfield to NY Penn? Today, there are two Amtrak runs per day on that route. It's pathetically slow. 3 1/2 hours. Connecticut just threw some money at the Springfield to New Haven rail infrastructure to put in commuter rail but the moment you hit Long Island Sound, the infrastructure is the worst in the country all the way to NY Penn.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

How do you get from Springfield to NY Penn? Today, there are two Amtrak runs per day on that route. It's pathetically slow. 3 1/2 hours. Connecticut just threw some money at the Springfield to New Haven rail infrastructure to put in commuter rail but the moment you hit Long Island Sound, the infrastructure is the worst in the country all the way to NY Penn.

I guess they would have to run a new route from Hartford to NYC, it must be possible somehow. I imagine it would involve huge upgrades as well.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by massnative71

I guess they would have to run a new route from Hartford to NYC, it must be possible somehow. I imagine it would involve huge upgrades as well.

Or you could bulldoze Connecticut into Long Island Sound and start over.

[2nd trick op]

The biggest problem with most High Speed Rail (HSR) ideas is that a non-technically-oriented public sees and hears what it wants to see and hear. The French and Japanese success stories which are usually cited ignore the point that those systems were "built from scratch" -- possible in France because of stronger eminent domain (seizure of private land for public purposes) laws, and possible in Japan because much of the previous infrastructure had been reduced to rubble in WW II.

In the United States, and in Great Britain as well, any HSR development has to involve the reconstruction and upgrading of existent rail lines, which usually have grades, curves, or obstacles such as drawbridges or tunnels which make optimal use of the higher potential speeds an impossibility.

Some progress is possible, but it will be a slow process; thee are simply too many NIMBYs (Not in MY Back Yard types) intent opon protecting their own turf.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

How do you get from Springfield to NY Penn? Today, there are two Amtrak runs per day on that route. It's pathetically slow. 3 1/2 hours. Connecticut just threw some money at the Springfield to New Haven rail infrastructure to put in commuter rail but the moment you hit Long Island Sound, the infrastructure is the worst in the country all the way to NY Penn.

Yes but it is direct there's one at 5:50am monday to friday. It's nearly a secret but it could work if someone has the time. The fastest even with acela from boston to nyc is 3.5 hours, same as a regular train of springfield to nyc.

The CT connect is going to create 12 trips a day between Springfield and New Haven (stopping in Hartford) Hartford to New haven will have this and another six stops. This starts in January.

Currently, there are two trips a day from New Haven to NYC. They want it at ten. There are two trips to Boston and they want six to eight a day new haven to Boston.
NEC FUTURE: Preferred Alternative

So if there's technically 12 trips a day to new haven and ten trips from new haven to NYC that's under theory going to provide more from Springfield to NYC. Scheduling, of course, is going to be a significant factor. This isn't direct but that's technically the point. Again I'd be pretty ticked off if I was living or working for Worcester because they are left high and dry on this...unless they connect to Springfield. An S pattern would work better than a reversed C and provide a contingency for Boston to NYC would be good.

They have proposed a seasonal train from NYC to Pittsfield although, to be honest, I'm not sure who would take it.

[Cloudship]

Springfield-Hartford-New Haven is under construction now. Eventually they hope for up to 25 trains a day. The big thing here is a shuttle bus to BDL. So if one wants to get to NYP from Springfield, one would take this line down to New Haven and then Northeast Regional or Acela to NYP.

As far as Worcester goes, I agree that a strong rail line going from Boston through Worcester to Springfield (and I would also go down to Windsor Locks) is a good idea. Not an easy one, as the Framingham to Boston line is already crowded, and the rest is one tracks of a unfriendly to passenger rail company. But I think it makes sense.

But all is not completely lost. There was a private initiative to start train service from Worcester to Providence, which probably makes even more sense. I haven't heard much of it lately and it is probably dead due to the merger of the P&W and Genesse, but I am sure the idea itself is still alive. That way, Worcester passengers can connect at Providence. In addition, this line probably has better numbers because it is much stronger in the commuter sector.

Of course, all this not only requires a bit of vision, it also requires an administration that is not keen on derailing any passenger rail initiatives it can.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Yes but it is direct there's one at 5:50am monday to friday. It's nearly a secret but it could work if someone has the time. The fastest even with acela from boston to nyc is 3.5 hours, same as a regular train of springfield to nyc.

The CT connect is going to create 12 trips a day between Springfield and New Haven (stopping in Hartford) Hartford to New haven will have this and another six stops. This starts in January.

Currently, there are two trips a day from New Haven to NYC. They want it at ten. There are two trips to Boston and they want six to eight a day new haven to Boston.
NEC FUTURE: Preferred Alternative

So if there's technically 12 trips a day to new haven and ten trips from new haven to NYC that's under theory going to provide more from Springfield to NYC. Scheduling, of course, is going to be a significant factor. This isn't direct but that's technically the point. Again I'd be pretty ticked off if I was living or working for Worcester because they are left high and dry on this...unless they connect to Springfield. An S pattern would work better than a reversed C and provide a contingency for Boston to NYC would be good.

I'm well aware of rail service in the region. I ride the Northeast Regional all the time and take the Vermonter and Northeast Regional at times from my girlfriend's West Hartford place. My comment was about the pathetic rail infrastructure in Connecticut. Acela only saves a few minutes over the Northeast Regional because all trains grind to a crawl through the entire length of the state. I can't justify spending 2x or more for an Acela seat that doesn't save any time so I never use it. Springfield to NY Penn is a stupidly slow ride just like Westerly RI to NY Penn is a stupidly slow ride. It doesn't need to be high speed rail. 120 mph would be fine. It's the 35 mph zones that are pathetic.

[urbanal]

heck, even a consistent speed of 65 to 85 miles per hour would be an improvement over much of the track area.