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I am a longtime fan of Yankee culture, it's very close to traditional Chinese culture (except for the arranged marriage thing). Maybe that's why I moved up to NH.
And in regards to being a conservative politically, it's because I believe in fiscal and personal responsibility and everyone pulling their own weight. I don't support government handouts like welfare and free breakfasts for the students from poor families. I live frugally and never buy a new car. When I need more money, I find part time work to do.
Why go through all that when you could just bemoan the state of things online and have everyone agree with you and you can all feel self-righteous together?
I agree and this goes along with what I described in my previous post except that in MA it has faded and there's much mixture.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but I think your overstating it. Is very easy to find people in eastern MA with Yankee ideals and customs. And, no, I don’t think that enjoying ethnic food detracts from a person’s “yankee-ness”.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but I think your overstating it. Is very easy to find people in eastern MA with Yankee ideals and customs. And, no, I don’t think that enjoying ethnic food detracts from a person’s “yankee-ness”.
Not to mention Real Yankee food is quite good. Not the Betty crocker version but places like the Salem Cross Inn or Old Mill do it right.
I work in DC... and have met a lot of people from the greater Boston area... all Catholics of Irish, Italian, or mixed Irish-Italian background. By the way they talk with each other, you can tell they share elements of a common background or identity, and they know it. It's very interesting.
I lived in the Brighton-Allston area of Boston for 2 years after living in Puerto Rico, Montreal, South Carolina, and New Orleans. People in Boston, although very mixed because of immigration, still have a Yankee temperament... especially in the sense that they don't open up freely to people they don't know well. I grew up in Maine and Bostonians are like old-stock Yankee Mainers in this regard, independent of ethnic, cultural or religious background.
A friend from Nantucket who was visiting DC confirmed what I suspected (he is of old Yankee stock)... there is a New England-wide cultural identity. New Englanders who have left the area and who meet other New Englanders from outside the area recognize regional commonalities vis-à-vis the rest of the USA. It is fair to say that this identity is stronger among people from old stock Yankee families than among say, Irish or Italian Catholic Bostonians, who have their own frames of reference when it comes to identity.
There is something in the mentality... in the sense of humor... and in speech that sets New Englanders from old Yankee families apart, within N.E. and when they meet each other outside of N.E.
My hometown of Lewiston-Auburn, Maine, there is (was) a deep division between people from Yankee families and those of French-Canadian immigrant backgrounds. However, I have since lived in Quebec Province and Franco-Americans in Maine have assimilated a lot of Yankee culture, but not entirely... there are still differences. Yankees are still more reserved; Franco-Americans are chattier, jokier, more jovial. Family traditions are different, too, especially around Christmas. When I was a kid, Yankees were considered more serious, better planners, wealthier, valued education; Franco-Americans were considered more frivolous, de-valued education, and were more working-class.
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My family was the typical wasp NE family. We are spread all over the country now, and the only big change in the family dynamic is, some have become non church goers, and a few have become catholic. Everyone is lawful, frugal, and operates in a traditional way.
I work in DC... and have met a lot of people from the greater Boston area... all Catholics of Irish, Italian, or mixed Irish-Italian background. By the way they talk with each other, you can tell they share elements of a common background or identity, and they know it. It's very interesting.
I lived in the Brighton-Allston area of Boston for 2 years after living in Puerto Rico, Montreal, South Carolina, and New Orleans. People in Boston, although very mixed because of immigration, still have a Yankee temperament... especially in the sense that they don't open up freely to people they don't know well. I grew up in Maine and Bostonians are like old-stock Yankee Mainers in this regard, independent of ethnic, cultural or religious background.
A friend from Nantucket who was visiting DC confirmed what I suspected (he is of old Yankee stock)... there is a New England-wide cultural identity. New Englanders who have left the area and who meet other New Englanders from outside the area recognize regional commonalities vis-à-vis the rest of the USA. It is fair to say that this identity is stronger among people from old stock Yankee families than among say, Irish or Italian Catholic Bostonians, who have their own frames of reference when it comes to identity.
There is something in the mentality... in the sense of humor... and in speech that sets New Englanders from old Yankee families apart, within N.E. and when they meet each other outside of N.E.
My hometown of Lewiston-Auburn, Maine, there is (was) a deep division between people from Yankee families and those of French-Canadian immigrant backgrounds. However, I have since lived in Quebec Province and Franco-Americans in Maine have assimilated a lot of Yankee culture, but not entirely... there are still differences. Yankees are still more reserved; Franco-Americans are chattier, jokier, more jovial. Family traditions are different, too, especially around Christmas. When I was a kid, Yankees were considered more serious, better planners, wealthier, valued education; Franco-Americans were considered more frivolous, de-valued education, and were more working-class.
When I worked at a company in a small suburb where I lived, there was a clear distinction between us locals and the people that came in from Boston and surrounding cities, even though none of us were WASPs. We felt like we were the real Yankees and the Boston people were foreigners. Some of them were still pretty ethnic even third generation. I suppose though if we met up in LA, we would feel more at home with each other than with west coasters.
I don’t necessarily disagree with this, but I think your overstating it. Is very easy to find people in eastern MA with Yankee ideals and customs. And, no, I don’t think that enjoying ethnic food detracts from a person’s “yankee-ness”.
I'm talking about real old time Yankees. Vestiges still remain but they are diluted and of course, they would eat ethic foods and dress in style with the times, probably drive new cars too. But a real, authentic old time Yankee like the family members my now deceased family members used to talk about would be really hard to find today. Maybe way up in Vermont in non tourist areas. Even my mother's generation didn't know what pizza was! My mother first ate pizza when she was in her 70s--(and she liked it.)
The old Yankee family members that I can remember were already diluted by living in western MA, not rural Vermont anymore. But their food was traditional New England. They did not consume alcohol. The women didn't wear makeup or pretty clothes. They were so frugal that they traded clothes with each other instead of buying new. They all drove used cars. They ate beans and hotdogs, blueberry pancakes with real maple syrup, and bland food in general. We had family reunions every year--no alcohol allowed and food was just the usual--potato salad, hotdogs and hamburgs, homemade pie and homemade chocolate cake. Reunion was at an uncle's house that still had an outhouse! They had indoor plumbing but probably were too cheap to use it, lol. This was in Connecticut, btw.
The decor of all their homes was plain and rather drab. No flashy colors or up to date styles. No keeping up with the Joneses--everyone was equal and who cared?
I still have a few relatives that I know of living up in the far northern region of Vermont on the Canadian border. Woman in her 80s wears overalls and manages a huge vegetable garden every year, shovels the snow, makes her own maple syrup, probably milks the cows, for all I know, lol. She's very interested in making do--plenty of money, but the old Yankee virtue of use it up, wear it out, make do. She probably still saves old clothing to cut up and turn into quilts instead of buying a blanket. The little Congregational church where my grandparents were married in 1900 is still there in the tiny town. There's a general store and a rickety old bridge, a river for fishing and for kids to swim in. That's it.
Maybe I'll finally get to meet her if I go to VT this summer for genealogy. She knows the family stories and how they survived. It was hardship but people did whatever they had to do. There was a certain strength and nobility in suffering. Suffering seemed almost admirable. They would talk about their hardship but also that it was all in God's hands.
If you go to New Hampshire, you can see some old Yankees but NH was largely diluted by Scots-Irish from northern Ireland. Hence, Londonderry, named after the place in N.I. I have some of those ancestors and they are different from the old yankees--Scots Irish were fighters. They were mercenary warriars and when they came here, they were useful in the French and Indian War. They didn't care which side they were on though and that was a problem. They just wanted to fight. The southern US was largely settled by Scots-Irish--maybe that accounts for their gun culture. But it is not a Yankee trait. The old time yankees had their guns but they were for hunting or if there was a call to duty, such as the Revolutionary War--"to arms, to arms"--meaning get your guns, the British are coming. Other than that they were peaceful. Hard work and frugality are hallmarks of the true yankees. Blunt speaking, not trusting outsiders and maybe even playing tricks on them, they were crusty, strict, and disciplined for hard work and keeping the Lord's day holy. They'd love to tell a tourist that "You can't get there from here." Just thought of someone who would be a good example of a true old yankee--President Calvin Coolidge of Vermont. Someone tried to make him say more than two words. He said, "You lose." They were tight lipped, said what had to be said and no more. Another old time yankee descendant is former President GW Bush--his family history goes way back in New England. He's not how they used to be but an example of how they are now. He would be the rich type of WASP, obviously, but more WASPS/yankees were poor, hard working farmers.
It's true, and the problem most people I know have with the Dem party.
They've swung so far to the right overall, they are useless. We have a far right and center right parties in this country, which don't generate interest in progressives to vote. And look at the horrific result.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but as someone who is fairly conservative I think the exact opposite. I think we have center-left and the extreme left for parties these days in MA and the country. Most republicans are neo-cons as opposed to conservative or libertarians.
I think it's just a fascinating instance of the idea of two people "watching two different movies" so to speak.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLinderman
I'm not saying you're wrong, but as someone who is fairly conservative I think the exact opposite. I think we have center-left and the extreme left for parties these days in MA and the country. Most republicans are neo-cons as opposed to conservative or libertarians.
I think it's just a fascinating instance of the idea of two people "watching two different movies" so to speak.
Well it is true that conservatives today have abandoned the good parts of conservatism - both fiscal conservatism (they love corporate and military industrial welfare!), and the old protect our open space ethos (the hunting/sporting tradition), but they cling to the REALLY bad parts of conservatism very well and take it to extremes!
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