Is Massachusetts Real Estate Affordable? (Boston, Andover: how much, unemployed, income)

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

You're missing the larger point - draw a 40 mile circle around Boston and tell me where a truly middle class family can buy these days? At one point, it was very tangible to buy into these second tier towns. Now you're looking at Ayer, a 90+ commute via public transit, and sub-par schools.

Define truly middle class. What constitute middle class varies, and what the ranges are varies per region. If you're defining middle class as the three middle quintiles (lowest quintile being lower class, upper quintile being upper class), then there are plenty of places for the salary ranges within the region.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Define truly middle class. What constitute middle class varies, and what the ranges are varies per region. If you're defining middle class as the three middle quintiles (lowest quintile being lower class, upper quintile being upper class), then there are plenty of places for the salary ranges within the region.

That debate has never been successfully made even on a national scale. Housing prices differ dramatically along with incomes and is it defined by access? Ownership etc? Assets, cash flow, credit can all be factors.

Can people move? Of course. But if someone was trying to go from say East St Louis to San Francisco or Manhattan I doubt they could afford it. Of course if one inherits that's complete different.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Define truly middle class. What constitute middle class varies, and what the ranges are varies per region. If you're defining middle class as the three middle quintiles (lowest quintile being lower class, upper quintile being upper class), then there are plenty of places for the salary ranges within the region.

If you're using that definition, the middle class in Massachusetts starts at about $33.7K for Norfolk County, $31K for Middlesex County, $27.5K for the Boston MSA. That's 20th percentile household income.


Citation:
Norfolk County: https://statisticalatlas.com/county/...usehold-Income


Middlesex County: https://statisticalatlas.com/county/...usehold-Income


Boston MSA: https://statisticalatlas.com/metro-a...usehold-Income


I don't think 20th percentile household income makes the middle class in Massachusetts. That's working poor. 40th percentile in Norfolk and Middlesex Counties is in the mid-$60K's.



I'd define it as a married couple making near-minimum wage for 50 40-hour weeks. At $15/hour, that's $60K. You can afford a garden apartment condo conversion in an outer suburb. If you're single working that kind of job, you're doing roommates inside I-495.

[OutdoorLover]

This area definitely isn't affordable for someone moving to this area or starting out as a new graduate. In my opinion, unless you can get some kind of job in Boston/Cambridge that would pay much more than you can earn in nearly any other place, this isn't a good place to move to - because the housing cost is much more than in nearly any other place. Even if you earn decent money and can buy a modest house - if you have to take a 30 year mortgage here, but could buy the same house for 1/3 less and pay it off in 15 years somewhere else where you can earn nearly the same, you'd be much better off financially going there.

[scorpio516]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Define truly middle class. What constitute middle class varies, and what the ranges are varies per region. If you're defining middle class as the three middle quintiles (lowest quintile being lower class, upper quintile being upper class), then there are plenty of places for the salary ranges within the region.

Middle class is the class of people above the working class but below the upper class.

Upper class is defined as nobility and business owners. Aristocracy and politicians. The bourgeoisie. The owners of the means of production.
The Working Class are the people who work for the upper class. People who produce value to the upper class.
The middle class are the people who manage the working class for the upper class. Professionals. Senior civil servants. Petit bourgeoisie.

Social classes aren't about what you make, but what you do.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by scorpio516

Middle class is the class of people above the working class but below the upper class.

Upper class is defined as nobility and business owners. Aristocracy and politicians. The bourgeoisie. The owners of the means of production.
The Working Class are the people who work for the upper class. People who produce value to the upper class.
The middle class are the people who manage the working class for the upper class. Professionals. Senior civil servants. Petit bourgeoisie.

Social classes aren't about what you make, but what you do.

In general, everybody is really talking socioeconomic class. That is a blend of your income and your net worth. It has little to do with what you do for a living. You can have a small business with 2 or 3 septic trucks and be upper middle class based on your net worth and income. You work in cover-alls, use a shovel, and have to take a 20 minute shower at the end of the day. There's a high correlation between education, capability of critical thought, and socioeconomic class but you can also get there by doing something nobody else wants to do. Nobody wants to be on a roof of an office building at -10F or 100F fixing a broken HVAC system so a competent tech in a high COL city gets paid like a software engineer.

[turf3]

As far as affordability of housing, social class is irrelevant: what's important is one's economic position.

Social class is usually roughly correlated with economic position and education, but not tightly correlated. But social class is not germane to housing affordability which is a purely economic issue.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

In general, everybody is really talking socioeconomic class. That is a blend of your income and your net worth. It has little to do with what you do for a living. You can have a small business with 2 or 3 septic trucks and be upper middle class based on your net worth and income. You work in cover-alls, use a shovel, and have to take a 20 minute shower at the end of the day. There's a high correlation between education, capability of critical thought, and socioeconomic class but you can also get there by doing something nobody else wants to do. Nobody wants to be on a roof of an office building at -10F or 100F fixing a broken HVAC system so a competent tech in a high COL city gets paid like a software engineer.

You can also be the cop doing paid detail work on weekends--all of this categorization can be very misleading..

In general, is MA real estate affordable? In central and western MA, yes. In Boston/eastern MA......NO.

[GeePee]

Its's all relative right.. I can afford the Mercedes that The Honda driver covets and the Ferrari driver laughs at.

[FCMA]

And the funny thing is, most full time employees work about as hard as one another. The difference is usually technical training and/or the value in arbitrary bonus points (aka dollars) that society places on your profession and economic influence. A lawyer deserves a house be built for him or buy that overpriced lead paint Andover ranch in cash and is comparatively easily able to hoard the bonus points to do so, but a nonprofit employee or janitor can not. So goes the societal stratification of homo sapiens. No use having a big ego about your point accumulation, nice home, and toys that money buys - on a fundamental level you’re probably no better or hard working than the dedicated teacher down the street.