Has Warren gone to far with racist cop comment? (Harvard: 2015, camp)

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I would love to see this study. It's fascinating that they must have been able to place GPS responders in white and black driven cars and tracked them to determine this.

Not the study, but a study of the study: https://watermark.silverchair.com/mg...l-vZrNsgCp-Aj5

The conclusion of this study was that black drivers speed more frequently than white drivers, but not at a rate high enough to explain their citation rates.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

Not the study, but a study of the study: https://watermark.silverchair.com/mg...l-vZrNsgCp-Aj5

The conclusion of this study was that black drivers speed more frequently than white drivers, but not at a rate high enough to explain their citation rates.

Thanks for the link. I will read it over.

[2ner]

Originally Posted by lrfox

I know the numbers combined white/Hispanic and that blacks are still arrested at disproportionately high levels relative to the overall population. My point is twofold:

1) Arrests do not mean that someone is guilty of a crime. Period.
2) While the arrest numbers for blacks are higher than they should be, the incarceration rates are almost 10% higher than that. At 12% of the population, blacks make up 28% of all arrests and 38% of incarcerations.

Number 2 is an indicator of a flawed system. We know that black men receive 20% longer sentences than their white counterparts for the same exact crimes. That's a clear indicator of a major disadvantage in criminal justice. So do you really believe that that's where the disadvantages stop? I think (and there's a lot out there to support this - I've already shared a good deal) that the system as a whole is unfair to people of color and that's why you see the disparities in arrest and incarceration numbers. Not because black people are "more prone to be criminals." White people who are arrested are more likely to get off, have a shorter sentence, or be steered toward "alternative treatment" than black people. That's a glaring problem with the system.

You also have to take into consideration individual rap sheets (previous arrests and offenses) in sentencing.

Originally Posted by lrfox

Also, regarding clothing and "yes, sir" and "no,sir." None of that should be a factor in determining guilt or criminality. The fact that it DOES influence life changing decisions and rulings in a courtroom is an indicator of a BIG problem with the system, not a problem with the clothing or word choice. A judge is a public servant who is supposed to keep bias from influencing judgements. Not some overlord you need to appease. Moreover, it's hard for me to blame people for not being deferential and going out of their way to dress or speak in a way that pleases the court.

It is perfectly legal in some cases for the judge to take into consideration how contrite or remorseful someone is.

[2ner]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Well said. When I read that statement I read it as "Submit to the white dominant culture and how they want you to act and you will be shown leniency". That is not justice.

And yes, when you know the system is stacked against you, it is hard to show deference.

One of the biggest things holding black students back in school is peer-pressure not to "act white" (i.e., get good grades, be studious).

[GeePee]

Originally Posted by 2ner

It is perfectly legal in some cases for the judge to take into consideration how contrite or remorseful someone is.

Isn't just a decency thing too? Does this also go for a lot of times they are "mistreated" by police. Maybe they aren't approaching the situation with decency and create some hostility off the jump? And lord knows what happens when that escalates.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by 2ner

One of the biggest things holding black students back in school is peer-pressure not to "act white" (i.e., get good grades, be studious).

Yeah, sure.

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by 2ner

One of the biggest things holding black students back in school is peer-pressure not to "act white" (i.e., get good grades, be studious).

Anti-education behavior among students was something I commonly observed in the two public school systems i was in growing up, but I'd hesitate to say it was specific to one race as they were predominantly white school systems (as is all of MA). That sort of behavior tended to fall among socioeconomic lines, rather than racial ones. Plenty of white peers didn't amount to much because they wanted to "be cool" and laughed at those who studied hard.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by 2ner

I read an interesting piece by a seasoned public defender a few years back. He said that any time a white person was in court he nearly always showed deference and used language like "yes, sir", "no, sir", while many black men were defiant, even mocking criminal proceedings, laughing in court. Some wore gang-banger clothes to court. Others wore T-shirts with a marijuana leaf emblazoned on the front. I'm sure that has something to do with the punishments meted out. Many treated their public defender like sh*t.

Originally Posted by lrfox

Also, regarding clothing and "yes, sir" and "no,sir." None of that should be a factor in determining guilt or criminality. The fact that it DOES influence life changing decisions and rulings in a courtroom is an indicator of a BIG problem with the system, not a problem with the clothing or word choice. A judge is a public servant who is supposed to keep bias from influencing judgements. Not some overlord you need to appease. Moreover, it's hard for me to blame people for not being deferential and going out of their way to dress or speak in a way that pleases the court.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Well said. When I read that statement I read it as "Submit to the white dominant culture and how they want you to act and you will be shown leniency". That is not justice.

And yes, when you know the system is stacked against you, it is hard to show deference.

Let's say a white guy were to show up in court with long hair, a 5-day beard, unshowered and wearing sweat pants, a pizza-stained t-shirt, and flip flops. Basically looking like he just rolled out of bed after a long weekend of partying. And let's say he has a poor attitude and is using language like "yeah dude" and "whatever man". How's that going to work out? I'm guessing not very good.

To me, this is more about common sense than anything.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by 2ner

One of the biggest things holding black students back in school is peer-pressure not to "act white" (i.e., get good grades, be studious).

Bwahaha! This has got to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard!

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by redplum33

Let's say a white guy were to show up in court with long hair, a 5-day beard, unshowered and wearing sweat pants, a pizza-stained t-shirt, and flip flops. Basically looking like he just rolled out of bed after a long weekend of partying. And let's say he has a poor attitude and is using language like "yeah dude" and "whatever man". How's that going to work out? I'm guessing not very good.

To me, this is more about common sense than anything.

Probably true. But we're talking about how things should be, under a true "justice" system, not how they are.


We know how they are, and how they are isn't a system of "justice".