Has Warren gone to far with racist cop comment? (quality of life, taxes)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by lrfox

I've been snippy with LE before. It's never adversely affected me. I shared one incident with a black coworker about an argument I had with a state trooper at Logan (I got angry and basically called him an idiot - I was right in terms of the argument, but I handled it poorly), and he laughed and said "I'd have been dragged from the car and beaten senseless." He was only half joking. There's a lot less wiggle room/leeway for a person of color on that front - they have to show more restraint than a white person and it's especially hard when the system is tipped against them.

Hahaha I do once remember getting mouthy with a cop who pulled me over in a certain South Shore town for an issue with my registration. Early 20s, didn't have it in me to realize that it was all myself that screwed up, and not the RMV's fault and CERTAINLY not the officer's fault. But DID he put me in my place, although I have to say that he let me off quite easy looking back at it outside of having to pay for the wrecker. Imagining if I was "somebody else" in that town, I can't see things going that smoothly. But bottom line is, respect has to be earned, and life has never been fair and never will be. I'm the type of person who will be caught 1/1 for something another has gotten away with for 100 times over, so I have learned over the years to always cover my own. Playing the victim will get you attention, taking personal responsibility and worrying about yourself will get you ahead.

[Uconndoitt]

Originally Posted by massnative71

I think we have reached the point here in post racial America, that any gains now have to come from within the minority communities. For example, the justice system just isn't going to show leniency to those who don't have the respect thing down. It's plain reality. All the education reform, throwing money at the "equalizing" things, diversity preference for cops...all this stuff has been tried and has gone as far as it can. I have minority friends and coworkers from various backgrounds, who say the key to their success is to not let the "perception" of racism stand in their way. I know that's easier said than done, but it's the only way the gap will ever be closed. If only groups like BLM would spend half the amount of effort pushing for education and actually building better relationships with the justice community (and of course acknowledging that Black on Black crime is the biggest threat to their community), over the victimhood and bashing the police; I think the results would be much better.

We have had our own successful communities in the past that rivaled any white community (see black wall street). They were completely destroyed by jealous whites. Any time minorities try to build themselves up, they are stepped on by white people. Why do you think this is?

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Nah. Her base just hates poorly educated white people. An awful lot of cops fall into that category. Kind of like contorting a comment that the justice system is racially biased into "Has Warren gone to far with racist cop comment?"


Personally, I find the Elizabeth Warren nasal strident harangues to be like fingernails on the chalkboard. I can't be the only one and I think she's far less electable than Hillary Clinton. If you want a second term of Trump or that dolt Mike Pence, pull the Warren lever in the primary. There's nothing wrong with having a back bencher who does nothing but preach-y sound bites but that's not what we want leading the country. I think we need a governor who has actually had to get something done in their state rather than a career Congressman or Senator.

I pretty much agree with you. Policy wise she is sound. More than sound.


But she is a tough listen. And yes, some people are better as antagonists to the system. I pretty much feel that way about Bernie too. Better on the outside. Though, damn, we would be SOOOOO much better off with him in the White House getting nothing done with an obstructionist congress (like Obama had) than the horrors of what is going on now.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I pretty much agree with you. Policy wise she is sound. More than sound.


But she is a tough listen. And yes, some people are better as antagonists to the system. I pretty much feel that way about Bernie too. Better on the outside. Though, damn, we would be SOOOOO much better off with him in the White House getting nothing done with an obstructionist congress (like Obama had) than the horrors of what is going on now.

The Bernie problem is that we need to move towards more of a European social democracy in small steps. It’s too easy for wealthy people to convince poorly educated white people that tax dollars they don’t actually pay are going to lazy brown people and black people. If you look more closely, those people tend to have an absurdly low effective tax rate. They pay payroll taxes and a few thousand dollars of Federal tax. Fight one battle at a time. Personally, I think education needs to be #1. The majority of the country lacks job skills that are competitive in the global economy. An AA degree that is remedial High School and BA with big loans from a 3rd tier state school doesn’t help anyone but the employees of the state college. K-12 needs to be rigorous. The money squandered on 3rd tier colleges needs to be redirected to more of a German style lifetime job training program.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The Bernie problem is that we need to move towards more of a European social democracy in small steps. It’s too easy for wealthy people to convince poorly educated white people that tax dollars they don’t actually pay are going to lazy brown people and black people. If you look more closely, those people tend to have an absurdly low effective tax rate. They pay payroll taxes and a few thousand dollars of Federal tax. Fight one battle at a time. Personally, I think education needs to be #1. The majority of the country lacks job skills that are competitive in the global economy. An AA degree that is remedial High School and BA with big loans from a 3rd tier state school doesn’t help anyone but the employees of the state college. K-12 needs to be rigorous. The money squandered on 3rd tier colleges needs to be redirected to more of a German style lifetime job training program.

I don't disagree with any of that. Though, single payer health care would be such a boon to the economy it wouldn't be funny. It would improve our health care system drastically, save tons of money across the board, get better results, and instantly be a boon to both entrepreneurship and our existing businesses being able to better compete globally. It's really a no brainer. It be the biggest boost to society and the economy we've ever seen. That should be something done in a single stroke.

[DaveC1203]

Originally Posted by lrfox

I don't disagree about the socioeconomic piece at all. I just don't think it's separate from race. Race is a major influential factor in determining socio-economic standing. And socioeconomic standing has a major influence on education, which has a major influence on success from a socioeconomic standpoint. It's a tough cycle. Google Redlining (or better yet, Relining in Boston). The scales are tipped against people of color on the socioeconomic front too. It's not equal. So even if you say that it's more about socioeconomics, race is a big piece of that.

It isn't separate from race, but what Warren/etc would like to equate to race is largely about money/financial resources.

It's just a less sensational point to make and something basically everyone agrees with.

Getting more socio-economic parity via increased mobility/opportunity for all is likely to be the solution. Not accusing cops of being racist.

[Cape Cod Todd]

Originally Posted by massnative71

I think we have reached the point here in post racial America, that any gains now have to come from within the minority communities. For example, the justice system just isn't going to show leniency to those who don't have the respect thing down. It's plain reality. All the education reform, throwing money at the "equalizing" things, diversity preference for cops...all this stuff has been tried and has gone as far as it can. I have minority friends and coworkers from various backgrounds, who say the key to their success is to not let the "perception" of racism stand in their way. I know that's easier said than done, but it's the only way the gap will ever be closed. If only groups like BLM would spend half the amount of effort pushing for education and actually building better relationships with the justice community (and of course acknowledging that Black on Black crime is the biggest threat to their community), over the victimhood and bashing the police; I think the results would be much better.

I agree that change has to come from within the minority communities themselves. When you think about all the laws and programs that have been implemented over the years to help the black community why are they still struggling?
When I was a young man I worked in a small city in Mass. and I had black coworkers and some were friends that I hung out with outside work. I witnessed how racist they were to each other and experienced it myself when I went over a friends house and his dad said what is this "white bread" doing in my house? I wasn't invited back.



I think there is a perception of racism in the country today. It seemed like all that stuff was behind us and then Obama brought it to the forefront by making a police shooting political and personal and then after the marches, protests, riots, looting, statues being torn down, TV shows being banned and racism being found lurking everywhere such as when a college campus was shut down over a discarded banana peel in a tree.... we find ourselves at a crossroads.



Is racism as bad as it ever has been or is the media blowing it out of proportion and the Dems picking up the issue to turn it into a political tool to be used to unseat Trump?

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I don't disagree with any of that. Though, single payer health care would be such a boon to the economy it wouldn't be funny. It would improve our health care system drastically, save tons of money across the board, get better results, and instantly be a boon to both entrepreneurship and our existing businesses being able to better compete globally. It's really a no brainer. It be the biggest boost to society and the economy we've ever seen. That should be something done in a single stroke.

Yeah, but with the "Medical Cartel" consuming 17% of GDP, it's really tough the change with all that money corrupting the political system. Personally, what I'd like to see is Medicaid spending held constant and rationed differently so everyone has access to well care. Kind of like the Brit NHS where expensive behavior-induced chronic health issues (diabetes, heart disease, smoking-related cancers) go to the end of the queue. If you're getting health care using public money, it's your personal responsibility to society to have healthy behavior. It's cheap to keep people healthy. CHIP kid Medicaid costs practically nothing. If you do all the right things and become ill, make the system generous. I'd also redirect a lot of dollars now spent on those expensive chronic problems to mental health.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

An AA degree that is remedial High School and BA with big loans from a 3rd tier state school doesn’t help anyone but the employees of the state college.

Most of the rest of your post is spot on, but like often you squash everything you said with ignorant lines such as this that makes you appear to have zero idea what you are talking about.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by 2ner

The lucky men and women working there have it good. They are making a killing off of you and me... living like fat cats: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/f...court-justices.

and they've returned ~12B to consumers so sounds like a good deal to me.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...you/897704001/