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Old 10-22-2018, 02:42 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
23,017 posts, read 22,072,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_General View Post
Main Street in Northampton and Main Street and Ware are both route 9. On a map downtown Ware is south of The Quabbin. Those factories were going to close anyway.
Of course it's rte 9 but if the Quabbin were still the Swift River, it would have been possible to build a bridge and new roads. That would have allowed people to commute to jobs. (Nothing to do with factories; those closed everywhere.)
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:47 PM
 
18,277 posts, read 10,291,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missionhill View Post
I thought Connecticut was the NE state people think of as preppy and WASPy and Massachusetts rather as full of people who hold up banks and drive like Eddie Coyle.

Biff, Skip, and Muffy come from Lower Fairfield County. Connecticut has the same failed city problem as Massachusetts. Hartford has demographics that are pretty much the worst in the country. Tied with Camden, NJ for highest percentage of single parent households at an astounding 84%. The Connecticut worst 10 and Massachusetts worst 10 are pretty much a toss-up.
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:54 PM
 
13,275 posts, read 10,121,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
I don't see how a city with only 29.4% of the workforce with a college education ever becomes significant without an enormous pile of public investment that isn't going to happen since the money has to be spread out among a pretty long list of struggling mill cities. You don't have the skill in the local workforce for employers to want to locate high paying there and that education level puts a huge drag brake on the public school system.

That 30% actually isn't too bad, it's higher than some major cities like Philadelphia and San Antonio. Among it's peers, it's comparable to Providence and Syracuse. MILES ahead of Springfield, Hartford, Rochester, NY.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:03 PM
 
2,165 posts, read 3,873,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Biff, Skip, and Muffy come from Lower Fairfield County. Connecticut has the same failed city problem as Massachusetts. Hartford has demographics that are pretty much the worst in the country. Tied with Camden, NJ for highest percentage of single parent households at an astounding 84%. The Connecticut worst 10 and Massachusetts worst 10 are pretty much a toss-up.
Well, we were talking about stereotypes. But yes, Conn and Mass both have older industrial cities the current economy has passed by. The recent Conn narrative of ‘Woe is us, we’ve put all our eggs in the suburban basket and now look at us— companies leaving, dead downtowns, can’t compete for HQ2, etc.” blames the state for not making Hartford (or New Haven) competitive whereas Massachusetts basks in its reputation for biotech, companies relocating to inner Boston, taxes under control, popular governor, high real estate values, etc. In reality both states have cities and regions lagging economically but with some bright spots. It sounds like Worcester is doing very well. Lowell and Haverhill not so bad either. North Adams got a big shot in the arm with Mass MOCA and I hear good things about Pittsfield. Waltham— who even remembers it too was a old mill town? The millennials seem to like the scene in New Haven and even Hartford has a growing downtown residential scene.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:23 PM
 
5,507 posts, read 5,051,759 times
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I can see Providence as something that Springfield can try to mimic. At the same point Brockton is trying to copy springfield

HQ2 helped worcester get the pawsox so it wasn't exactly a bad idea.

I have some faith in CT because there is potential but they keep punching themselves in the groin. They need a prop 2 1/2. When I hear about 5%, 10% or even 12% increases that's just crazy.

One interesting viewpoint on this is to look at the Google Street Map and roll the slider back. The larger the area the more it is updated. You can see springfield pre tornado in 2007 and the damage and rebuilding. Likewise redevelopment can seen in other community store fronts, openings, closings etc.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:35 PM
 
Location: New England
2,190 posts, read 1,635,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Well, just about any former mill town. I wouldn't even know where to begin, maybe with Ware. Neighboring Palmer is not as bad, but still mostly a ghost town. Palmer will be getting a water park so finally, FINALLY, they have some hope for jobs and some sort of activity besides a few run down bars.
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Not every mill town. While not wealthy, Lowell has been doing pretty well lately and is much better then it was in the 90s.

And people pointing out Lawrence, yes it's dirt poor, but I think Lawrence is doing a bit better then it was 10 years ago. During and right after the recession there were tons of empty storefronts in that area. It's doing a little better, although definitely not without it's issues.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
9,716 posts, read 3,817,406 times
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Objectively Lawrence is doing better than 2008 or 2009. Solely because everywhere is doing better than the depths of the worst comic recession in our lifetime...But as I say with Lowell and any other city in the country just because there is some investment and some new people does not mean the city of any healthier the reality is that Lawrence is 10 years deeper into generational poverty and welfare. Drugs are worse and it’s ten years more of being used to high crime. For the worst of places you can rest assured that if it’s not getting better it’s getting worse.

Lowell has stagnated throughout the 2010’s it’s a lot better than it was in the 90s but it’s definitely not rejuvenating and as hopeful as the 2000s, It definitely qualifies as economically lagging if we are comparable to the average town in Massachusetts especially the average town that a tourists thinks of.

Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 10-22-2018 at 07:22 PM..
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:48 AM
 
Location: New England
4 posts, read 2,160 times
Reputation: 25
Southbridge. Population hovers just south of 17K, so, not unmanageable. Town is laid out incredibly well, exceedingly walkable to everything, only trouble is everything doesn't amount to much. There's a small handful of small businesses in side streets off the main drag (Rt. 131), but you'd never know these were there as you drive through, which is what people do when they get to Southbridge. They drive through, on their way to other places.

Dentists, doctors, DMV/RMV, and a true excess of hairdressers/barbershops are all within an easy walk in the downtown, and the public library on Main St. is excellent. The Victorian/Edwardian former homes of the wealthy line the lower end of Main, all converted now to various businesses, offices, and such, but still beautiful. The upper portion of Main and its side streets are filled with empty storefronts (most full of visible junk) and storefront churches, most with themes variant on "the devil is in your house", which mantra can be heard all over downtown for hours on Sundays, loudspeakered as it is from inside said storefronts, carried out into all the surrounding airspace.

It's a town that never got over losing its lover. There were other businesses, mills and such, but the giant American Optical did the majority of the economic heavy lifting here for a very long time, and while its heyday is long overwith people still talk about it as if the disappearance of jobs happened yesterday, with seemingly little comprehension of how to get over the breakup.

With its public schools in receivership, families with kids looking for good schools will not come here to live. Receivership is expected to last at least six or seven years before there's a turnaround -
[url]https://www.telegram.com/news/20180819/head-of-southbridge-schools-sees-turnaround-in-6-or-7-years[/url]

Mixed right in with a few good small eateries, one cool hipstery nightspot and one nifty thrift shop are several dives complete with brawls and arrests; daylight assaults, epic drug activity, domestic disputes in the street, people wandering about talking and/or screaming to themselves, sex offenders, pickpockets, some very nice and interesting people, washed-up people, and People Not Spending Their Money in Town.

Southbridge with its good walkable layout is perfectly suited to court a satellite college campus, or something, something that would put it right back up on its staggering feet. But as long as it continues to nurse its old broken heart it will not attract new lovers. It's too bad. It's The Town That Could Be a Contender, But Ain't. A community has to really want to be better in order to be better, and that fire in the belly just isn't there. Maybe someday.

Last edited by intheweeds; 10-23-2018 at 06:57 AM..
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:00 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,727 posts, read 29,017,005 times
Reputation: 36261
I kind of want to visit Southbridge after that post just to see it.


Edit: Stupid me, I just did go there for a memorial service of someone killed in a car wreck. Yeah, it didn't look amazing.

Last edited by timberline742; 10-23-2018 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:05 AM
 
341 posts, read 232,413 times
Reputation: 559
Randolph isn't in as bad shape as others, but for it's location, values really should be a lot higher than it is. It's right where 24/93/128 all meet, so you'd think the access would be great for businesses. Probably comes down to it's poor school system.

You could probably say the same about Stoughton, Avon, Holbrook too.
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