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Old 10-27-2018, 04:33 AM
 
18,259 posts, read 10,284,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iAMtheVVALRUS View Post
I admittedly haven’t spent much time in Worcester, but I’m in Hartford on a weekly basis. I really can’t imagine any city being more dead than downtown Hartford on a given night.
Hartford is a collection of vibrant office towers with white collar jobs surrounded by an extremely poor city. The Hartford demographics are frightening. It’s tied for dead last along with Camden NJ for percentage of children living in single parent households. A place mired in the generational poverty problem. Other than 5,000 singles and childless couples living downtown, everyone flees to the suburbs at 5pm because you’re not going to put children in that school system. Downtown is slowly improving from all the state intervention but I don’t see how it ever hits critical mass where people want to live there. Without affluent people, you can’t support the trendy businesses.

Metro Hartford is a top 10 MSA for household income. It has some very prosperous suburbs. Hartford isn’t growing high wage jobs so housing is dirt cheap compared to other top 10 places. With 1.2 million people in the MSA, the top 25% live really well. 25th percentile can afford the nice house in the town with the good school system where that isn’t possible in metro Boston. If you’re looking for urban with a pulse, it’s not the place.
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Old 10-28-2018, 05:35 PM
 
405 posts, read 168,743 times
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Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
A 1.2 million MSA isn't big enough to support a pro sports team. You don't get the cable TV revenue to support a competitive payroll.

Raheigh's population is about 450,000
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:13 AM
 
3,103 posts, read 1,828,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airunxc View Post
Umass Lowell has been the real engine for downtown. They are still expanding and growing, so I think lowell has a chance. Also the hamilton canal district has taken a long time, but infrastructure improvements might help private development soon.

Development Updates — Hamilton Canal Innovation District

Also, new courthouse project https://www.mass.gov/info-details/co...udicial-center

and $300M+ renovated high school will inject some capital into downtown.

45minute train ride to north station from lowell vs 90 minutes from worcester.

I always thought Lowell had more potential, due to its canals, riverfront, etc but will see how that turns out.
UMass may be pumping money into Lowell, but it's also pushing out the high income professionals the city desperately needs. When they bought Perkin's, they not only stripped the city of huge tax revenue, they also gave the boot to hundreds of quality residents.
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Old 10-29-2018, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWLC View Post
Raheigh's population is about 450,000

That is just the city, metro is at least 2 million.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:59 PM
 
5,503 posts, read 5,049,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Hartford is a collection of vibrant office towers with white collar jobs surrounded by an extremely poor city. The Hartford demographics are frightening. It’s tied for dead last along with Camden NJ for percentage of children living in single parent households. A place mired in the generational poverty problem. Other than 5,000 singles and childless couples living downtown, everyone flees to the suburbs at 5pm because you’re not going to put children in that school system. Downtown is slowly improving from all the state intervention but I don’t see how it ever hits critical mass where people want to live there. Without affluent people, you can’t support the trendy businesses.

Metro Hartford is a top 10 MSA for household income. It has some very prosperous suburbs. Hartford isn’t growing high wage jobs so housing is dirt cheap compared to other top 10 places. With 1.2 million people in the MSA, the top 25% live really well. 25th percentile can afford the nice house in the town with the good school system where that isn’t possible in metro Boston. If you’re looking for urban with a pulse, it’s not the place.
Might be OT but CT is going though some of the same educational reforms Mass did in '93. If they build a new version of the MCAS for themselves it could help. Increasingly I think there's green shoots in Hartford. Not saying it is all due to one person but finally some things are happening. I'd recommend the CT science center and events in the G. Fox building.
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Old 10-29-2018, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
9,689 posts, read 3,809,775 times
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Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Might be OT but CT is going though some of the same educational reforms Mass did in '93. If they build a new version of the MCAS for themselves it could help. Increasingly I think there's green shoots in Hartford. Not saying it is all due to one person but finally some things are happening. I'd recommend the CT science center and events in the G. Fox building.
CT schools are extremly good-just a small bit behind MA. And yes, things look bright for Hartford at the moment. Things-important things-ARE happening. If that coty could clean up it could honestly be an awesome city with modernized public transit
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Old 10-29-2018, 03:11 PM
 
Location: N.E. Connecticut
13 posts, read 7,323 times
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I guess opinions differ, but I grew up and live outside of Hartford, and its difficult to imagine a worse urban train-wreck than Hartford. I have to go there sometimes but I;m not happy about it. What a dump.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:51 AM
 
18,259 posts, read 10,284,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWLC View Post
Raheigh's population is about 450,000

The Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill CSA is 2 million. The city of Hartford is only 125,000. The affluent people in the 1.2 million Hartford metro live in the suburbs.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:06 AM
 
18,259 posts, read 10,284,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Might be OT but CT is going though some of the same educational reforms Mass did in '93. If they build a new version of the MCAS for themselves it could help. Increasingly I think there's green shoots in Hartford. Not saying it is all due to one person but finally some things are happening. I'd recommend the CT science center and events in the G. Fox building.

Even the briefest glance at Hartford's demographics make that laughable. Massively high poverty rate. Massively high percentage of unwed births with the mother below poverty level. It's a generational poverty problem and those people are locked in place with public housing and Section 8 vouchers. Sure, there are 5,000 singles and childless couples living downtown and Hartford has a very nice mansion row on the West Hartford line between Fern and Albany but most of the city is the hood and has zero shot at recovering. Nobody in the middle class with children is going to use that school system. It has a staggeringly bad literacy problem.


By flinging huge money at the center city, you can do a Providence with it and make it so people will want to drive in from the suburbs to use the city. In theory, you could do NYC-style competitive exam schools so the middle class doesn't have to bail out. Pushing the UConn-Hartford campus back to the downtown helped a bit. Personally, I don't see any chance of the slums gentrifying. It's not like Boston where you can't get to your downtown office tower from the suburbs by car. It's 15 minute delays at rush hour with Waze picking alternate routes, not hour+ delays.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:24 AM
 
2,165 posts, read 3,872,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Even the briefest glance at Hartford's demographics make that laughable. Massively high poverty rate. Massively high percentage of unwed births with the mother below poverty level. It's a generational poverty problem and those people are locked in place with public housing and Section 8 vouchers. Sure, there are 5,000 singles and childless couples living downtown and Hartford has a very nice mansion row on the West Hartford line between Fern and Albany but most of the city is the hood and has zero shot at recovering. Nobody in the middle class with children is going to use that school system. It has a staggeringly bad literacy problem.
None of this is immutable. The whole intergenerational poverty/culture of poverty thing is a Rockefeller Republican-endorsed theory, a lens through which you look at things, not a social fact. Cities change. Hartford has a lot of potential—why? Because as you point out the metro ranks high nationally in income, jobs, public education. The city is small geographically and a small part of its metro but a big draw for its jobs, cultural offerings, state government... We’re in an urban moment and neighborhoods can change fast; Hartford is no Detroit with many square miles of half-abandoned neighborhoods to resist a regenerative wave. Connecticut has put a lot into magnet schools in Hartford—albeit under court order—but those schools attract suburbanites with the result that something like half the schoo population in Hartford attends integrated schools, which is a huge advantage. Connecticut has also invested in commuter rail and bus rapid transit to improve connectivity in the area. Lots of potential there.
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