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Old 10-30-2018, 09:34 AM
 
18,235 posts, read 10,279,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
CT schools are extremly good-just a small bit behind MA. And yes, things look bright for Hartford at the moment. Things-important things-ARE happening. If that coty could clean up it could honestly be an awesome city with modernized public transit

There's nothing particularly wrong with what Hartford has for public transportation now. The jobs are concentrated in the city center. There's now commuter rail from the north & south. There's a dedicated bus lane on the old train right-of-way to the west. There's a bus/car pool lane on I-84 to the east where only the last 2 miles are ugly. The city bus service is fine. I've used it a number of times and have a 10 ride card in my wallet. It's the best regional airport in New England where you can get to places other than Florida and the east coast hubs/ORD/MDW on nonstop service. The train line should be electrified and increase the frequency of both commuter rail and Amtrak service but it's not a choked gridlock like Boston.


The CT public schools in the professional bedroom towns are just as good as the MA public schools in the professional bedroom towns. The CT public schools in the failed cities are just as awful as the MA public schools in the failed cities. It's splitting hairs to try to argue differently. Connecticut is just as socioeconomically segregated as Massachusetts with 100% local control of public schools. Both places have those towns with pickup trucks, Confederate battle flags, and Trump stickers. Other than the Yankees fans, I don't see much difference.


Going back on-topic, you can match up the economically lagging places in Connecticut pretty much 1-to-1 with similar places in Massachusetts. They have the exact same problem. With the way public school systems work, nobody who is even remotely affluent wants to put their children in the public school system of a failed city. The biggest difference I see in Massachusetts is the regional vocational-technical high schools. If you want the middle class to stay in the failed cities, you have to give them good options to opt out of the failed city school system. Boston and slightly Springfield have the METCO lottery to give a few people an out. There's Boston Latin as a competitive exam school. NYC has competitive exam schools which keep the middle class from fleeing but they're being attacked as being discriminatory. Duh. College educated parents make sure their children are educated so they do well on the exam. You either do that or all those people flee.
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:44 PM
 
405 posts, read 168,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill CSA is 2 million. The city of Hartford is only 125,000. The affluent people in the 1.2 million Hartford metro live in the suburbs.

Well, I'm sure the areas surrounding Hartford would be potential pro sports consumers in Hartford just as the areas surrounding Raleigh are> When the Whalers were in Hartford, they had fans in Springfield. Heck, the pro sports in Boston attract fans from Western Mass.


I know a guy who works on the Carolina Hurricanes fan development staff. When the Whalers moved to North Carolina, there were few there with an interest in hockey. They had to teach people the game. Now they pack them in. Funny they couldn't do that in Hartford.
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Old 10-30-2018, 05:55 PM
 
13,258 posts, read 10,110,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWLC View Post
Well, I'm sure the areas surrounding Hartford would be potential pro sports consumers in Hartford just as the areas surrounding Raleigh are> When the Whalers were in Hartford, they had fans in Springfield. Heck, the pro sports in Boston attract fans from Western Mass.


I know a guy who works on the Carolina Hurricanes fan development staff. When the Whalers moved to North Carolina, there were few there with an interest in hockey. They had to teach people the game. Now they pack them in. Funny they couldn't do that in Hartford.
Harford is in hockey country and they couldn't fill the seats. People already knew the game so there was nothing to teach, the Harford market just couldn't support the team.


Bottom line is, Hartford or Springfield or Hartford AND Springfield are not comparable to Raleigh-Durham.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
9,676 posts, read 3,802,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
There's nothing particularly wrong with what Hartford has for public transportation now. The jobs are concentrated in the city center. There's now commuter rail from the north & south. There's a dedicated bus lane on the old train right-of-way to the west. There's a bus/car pool lane on I-84 to the east where only the last 2 miles are ugly. The city bus service is fine. I've used it a number of times and have a 10 ride card in my wallet. It's the best regional airport in New England where you can get to places other than Florida and the east coast hubs/ORD/MDW on nonstop service. The train line should be electrified and increase the frequency of both commuter rail and Amtrak service but it's not a choked gridlock like Boston.


The CT public schools in the professional bedroom towns are just as good as the MA public schools in the professional bedroom towns. The CT public schools in the failed cities are just as awful as the MA public schools in the failed cities. It's splitting hairs to try to argue differently. Connecticut is just as socioeconomically segregated as Massachusetts with 100% local control of public schools. Both places have those towns with pickup trucks, Confederate battle flags, and Trump stickers. Other than the Yankees fans, I don't see much difference.


Going back on-topic, you can match up the economically lagging places in Connecticut pretty much 1-to-1 with similar places in Massachusetts. They have the exact same problem. With the way public school systems work, nobody who is even remotely affluent wants to put their children in the public school system of a failed city. The biggest difference I see in Massachusetts is the regional vocational-technical high schools. If you want the middle class to stay in the failed cities, you have to give them good options to opt out of the failed city school system. Boston and slightly Springfield have the METCO lottery to give a few people an out. There's Boston Latin as a competitive exam school. NYC has competitive exam schools which keep the middle class from fleeing but they're being attacked as being discriminatory. Duh. College educated parents make sure their children are educated so they do well on the exam. You either do that or all those people flee.
Connecticut has had lots of success with their Magnet Schools in places like Hartford that actually attract a somewhat diverse pool of kids from the region. I don’t know why a poster or two on here is like CT schools this that etc..their the 2-4th rated schools in the country year in and year out...
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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Hartford needs an east-west light rail/BRT. Connecting a north line central line and south line. Gets go from West Hartford through east Hartford. Put maybe 6 stops on each line, for a total of 6 stops in each of the three Hartford’s. The city is hood with horrible demographics but is not as dead as Waterbury or New Bedford or Fall River. The real estate is ugly but it’s kind of a perfect amount of distresssed. Not too many properties in Hartford are unsalvageable. Hartford -with tasteful code enforcement could be a contractors paradise one day. The urban bones are there. It would be a long uphill battle but IMO the city is worth saving for CTs sake.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:22 AM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
23,001 posts, read 22,061,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade View Post
Hartford needs an east-west light rail/BRT. Connecting a north line central line and south line. Gets go from West Hartford through east Hartford. Put maybe 6 stops on each line, for a total of 6 stops in each of the three Hartford’s. The city is hood with horrible demographics but is not as dead as Waterbury or New Bedford or Fall River. The real estate is ugly but it’s kind of a perfect amount of distresssed. Not too many properties in Hartford are unsalvageable. Hartford -with tasteful code enforcement could be a contractors paradise one day. The urban bones are there. It would be a long uphill battle but IMO the city is worth saving for CTs sake.
I'd like to see Hartford saved but it seems to have gone nowhere but down. I don't go to Hartford due to it being unsafe but there don't seem to be very many good parts and there usually isn't very much going on. In contrast, I can remember going to Boston before it was booming like it is today and there was symphony hall, the museums, some beautiful hotels, and other pleasant areas. (Also the combat zone.)

But it seems that Hartford was better maybe 30 years ago than it is now. It was really horrible back then but it seems even worse now. And it's nearly bankrupt too. Plus, this is the state capital! This isn't CT's Fall River or Fitchburg, this is their capital, their pride and joy! I can't even think of a reason for going there. The only reason would be to work. And that seems to be the only reason anyone goes. Go to work and then get out.

There is nothing to attract anyone to Hartford. Why go there and be afraid for your life? It's not safe. If, on the odd chance, that Springfield rises from the ashes, there is a small possibility that it might pull Hartford up along with it, but what is in the future for Springfield? A gambling casino and the little businesses that might spring up around it aren't going to attract good jobs and a better economy. Hartford WAS the Insurance Capital. Maybe is WAS a few other things but now it's nothing. Pouring money into it doesn't help either.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:38 AM
 
2,164 posts, read 3,872,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
There is nothing to attract anyone to Hartford. Why go there and be afraid for your life? It's not safe.
In truth it does have some attractions but it’s harder to make a nice day of it for lack of other things to do to round out the experience. For example, I can imagine a pair of friends, suburban women with kids in college or grown up, who want to make a day of it “in town” without having to go all the way to Boston or New York. Maybe there’s an exhibit at the Wadsworth Athenaeum that catches their eye and/or a performance later in the day at the Bushnell or at Hartford Stage. All good Hartford attractions. Let’s say they go to the Wadsworth in the morning — it’s a great medium size museum with lots to see. Then what? That’s the problem. There’s no lively city center park to enjoy like Boston Common/Public Garden. There’s no fun street to stroll together like Newbury or Charles Streets. No galleries to check out such as you might find in the South End. No cute cafes on a charming street where you can have lunch before some shopping. No Lord & Taylor or Saks to pop into. In fact there is no shopping because there are no shops unless a copy center or a Metro PCS outlet counts as a shop. The day of Sage-Allen and G. Fox is long passed (RIP). There are no fun boutique filled neighborhoods with lovely side streets to wander. There’s no people-watching, no scene. Bushnell Park is pretty but too empty and it doesn’t lead anywhere other than to the state capitol. The downtown streets have plenty of office workers but not much to attract the eye. It’s safe enough during the day, Bushnell park too, but lacking in the urban amenities that round out a visit to the museum or a performance. Journalists like to write about the restaurant scene on Park Street but I don’t see that as something our pair of friends is going to feel comfortable checking out. Maybe one of their sons/daughters will rent an apartment there or even buy a house. Like millennials everywhere they want to live somewhere that isn’t just whitebread suburbia and they’re drawn to Hartford’s diversity and gritty character. But no one of a certain age from Glastonbury or Farmington (or many other places around Hartford) is going to enjoy the walk from the Wadsworth through the dingy, parking lot-filled streets to Park St to find some Yelp-rated Latino restaurant for lunch. That’s not going to feel enjoyable or even safe.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:35 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
23,001 posts, read 22,061,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missionhill View Post
In truth it does have some attractions but it’s harder to make a nice day of it for lack of other things to do to round out the experience. For example, I can imagine a pair of friends, suburban women with kids in college or grown up, who want to make a day of it “in town” without having to go all the way to Boston or New York. Maybe there’s an exhibit at the Wadsworth Athenaeum that catches their eye and/or a performance later in the day at the Bushnell or at Hartford Stage. All good Hartford attractions. Let’s say they go to the Wadsworth in the morning — it’s a great medium size museum with lots to see. Then what? That’s the problem. There’s no lively city center park to enjoy like Boston Common/Public Garden. There’s no fun street to stroll together like Newbury or Charles Streets. No galleries to check out such as you might find in the South End. No cute cafes on a charming street where you can have lunch before some shopping. No Lord & Taylor or Saks to pop into. In fact there is no shopping because there are no shops unless a copy center or a Metro PCS outlet counts as a shop. The day of Sage-Allen and G. Fox is long passed (RIP). There are no fun boutique filled neighborhoods with lovely side streets to wander. There’s no people-watching, no scene. Bushnell Park is pretty but too empty and it doesn’t lead anywhere other than to the state capitol. The downtown streets have plenty of office workers but not much to attract the eye. It’s safe enough during the day, Bushnell park too, but lacking in the urban amenities that round out a visit to the museum or a performance. Journalists like to write about the restaurant scene on Park Street but I don’t see that as something our pair of friends is going to feel comfortable checking out. Maybe one of their sons/daughters will rent an apartment there or even buy a house. Like millennials everywhere they want to live somewhere that isn’t just whitebread suburbia and they’re drawn to Hartford’s diversity and gritty character. But no one of a certain age from Glastonbury or Farmington (or many other places around Hartford) is going to enjoy the walk from the Wadsworth through the dingy, parking lot-filled streets to Park St to find some Yelp-rated Latino restaurant for lunch. That’s not going to feel enjoyable or even safe.
Thank you. You nailed it. Well put.

Looong ago, I used to go to Hartford for G. Fox but even back then, you drove there for G. Fox and drove home again. I do remember wanting a place to eat or some other shops but there wasn't anything at all. It had a deserted, desolate look about it.

The Wadsworth is a good museum but, as you said, what else is there to do?

I've lived back in the greater Hartford area for a year now and have only been to Hartford twice--once because the Dept of Motor Vehicles sent me there to get a real (paper) SS card instead of just knowing the number. I had to drive into Hartford and park at some seedy, deserted looking parking lot. From there, I walked to the SS office which turned out to be in the old G. Fox building! That was a sad experience because that used to be the one decent area of Hartford, from what I can remember.

The only other time I've been to Hartford this year was when I missed the exit and ended up there by mistake! At least it was daylight and I got out asap.

I'd love to go to the Wadsworth again. Maybe it has a place to eat inside the museum? It's been years since I've been there and I'd definitely like to go again but Hartford doesn't feel safe to me and the dumpy area and lack of anywhere to eat or anything else to do make it a non destination. This is CT's CAPITAL CITY! Oh--and the hospital? It's not in Hartford, it's in Farmington. It looks fairly new but for some reason they didn't even bother to build it in Hartford. They've made a mess of Farmington, especially with the enormous hospital complex which, to me, should have been put in the capital city, not in a suburb. It's like sticking Mass General in the middle of Wellesley or Baystate Medical, in Longmeadow!
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:38 PM
 
1,002 posts, read 901,970 times
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What's with all the Hartford stuff? Isn't this a Mass. thread? (FWIW, though, the science museum in Hartford is pretty great, and I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet.)
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:53 AM
 
18,235 posts, read 10,279,455 times
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Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
and the hospital? It's not in Hartford, it's in Farmington. It looks fairly new but for some reason they didn't even bother to build it in Hartford. They've made a mess of Farmington, especially with the enormous hospital complex which, to me, should have been put in the capital city, not in a suburb. It's like sticking Mass General in the middle of Wellesley or Baystate Medical, in Longmeadow!

I think you're confusing the state medical school with the hospitals. UConn Health in Farmington only has 224 beds. Hartford Hospital has 800+ and St Francis has 600+. Hartford Hospital is the big regional Level 1 trauma center and St Francis is Level II. UConn Health is where you'd send pediatric cases since they have the good Pediatric ICU. The UConn Med School faculty mostly work at Hartford Hospital and St Francis. Harvard, Tufts, and BU are the same in Boston except they're spread out among more hospitals and don't all work at MGH and Brigham & Womans.
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