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^ DC suburban sprawl imo is the worst on the east coast. I find boston to be way more pleasant and less congested. Never lived in DC but I visit my bro there somewhat regularly. I'm glad he lives in the city!
Oh absolutely agreed. Traffic and sprawl in general is worse in DC. I do think they do a better job building dense around transit stations though.
There is tons of housing going up in the Boston area. Tons of it. It is going up at a breakneck pace and it has for a decade or more.
But it's still nowhere near enough. There is only so much you can squeeze into <50 sq. mi. The inner suburbs need to step it up more, already built out Boston (and Somerville/Quincy...) can't do it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
It's not that people are "forced" to go to these places, its they want something they can't afford in the Boston area so they do so. It's a choice. That choice comes with other costs.
For some it's a choice (I believe you are one of those), others it's really NOT. I know countless people with "marginal" 30-55K salaries, pushed further and further away not because they WANTED to...there was simply nothing left anywhere near Boston in their price range. One who might have started out renting in Boston, could no longer afford there so they moved to Peabody, and then could no longer afford there so they moved to Haverhill. It's a vicious cycle and becoming VERY common. It's not a choice, it's basic mathematics.
Then you get those in higher income ranges who actually want a nice house and decent schools for their kids. So yes they COULD afford to live in Lynn and be closer to work, yet that doesn't offer them the community they desire so they move instead to Mansfield. I guess you could say that's a "choice", but let's be realistic here. People also have the responsibility to look after their family's interests and well being.
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Originally Posted by lrfox
Boston has built and is building a ton of housing, but I agree that the majority of it is very expensive. I also agree that Boston/Cambridge/Somerville should not be the only places where employment centers locate. Worcester is making significant strides on that front. Providence needs to do better, but it's still a hub. If Manchester (or even Nashua) could get it together, Boston would be surrounded by satellite hubs in all three non-ocean cardinal directions from the city center. Smaller employment centers could emerge in cities like Lowell, Lynn, Quincy, Brockton, etc.
That's kind of where I'm going...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
But that being said, people still do make choices. Whether they want the lack of income tax or more conservative politics that come with NH, the cheaper housing stock of RI, etc. They're making choices. As bad as Boston is price-wise, most of those people could live closer to the city within their budgets if they prioritized access to work over having the "best" school districts or living in a more conservative state. In a perfect world, all things would be equal, but in reality everyone has to make some sacrifices.
Like I said above, people have to find a reasonable balance. Sure Revere would be closer than Walpole, but can you really blame somebody for choosing the latter for their family? And once again for some, living closer is simply unattainable. They have been effectively priced OUT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I think Washington/MD/NoVA does a good job with suburban development around transit (I lived in Kensington, MD for a while - the only place I've lived outside of New England), but they have the benefit of not having to contend with hyper-local governments (most things are county-based down there) and more widespread pre-existing development (Boston's surrounded by old villages and towns that have been absorbed into the urban area). That makes it a lot easier to build new hubs outside of the core.
Yep there's a slim to no chance of it happening in Mass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
If you tried to duplicate Sterling in Bedford, you'd be drawn and quartered by the town leadership and everyone who lives there. I wish we could develop something like Rockville MD in Braintree, or an spine along transit like you have between Rosslyn and Ballston. They've done a much better job with building urban around transit while also accommodating cars. That said, still sucks to drive a lot of those highways around Sterling during peak hours.
I meant there should be a Sterling in Mansfield, Westborough or Chelmsford. Braintree would be like a
Tyson's Corner or outer Alexandria. Sure there are office parks in those places right now, but they are a poorly planned, spread out mess. What we need are high concentrations that are strategically placed with direct highway and transit access. I guess DT Worcester and Providence (or Manchester) could eventually meet this model, but it would be better to have more central locations in the 495 radius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
^ DC suburban sprawl imo is the worst on the east coast. I find boston to be way more pleasant and less congested. Never lived in DC but I visit my bro there somewhat regularly. I'm glad he lives in the city!
I agree that the design of the DC areas has many flaws, but it certainly does certain thing right as well (that Boston would be wise to take heed of).
Last edited by massnative71; 01-31-2019 at 09:34 AM..
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
For some it's a choice (I believe you are one of those), others it's really NOT. I know countless people with "marginal" 30-55K salaries, pushed further and further away not because they WANTED to...there was simply nothing left anywhere near Boston in their price range. One who might have started out renting in Boston, could no longer afford there so they moved to Peabody, and then could no longer afford there so they moved to Haverhill. It's a vicious cycle and becoming VERY common. It's not a choice, it's basic mathematics. .
Yet there are many many many many people living in the immediate Boston area earning that much. That's probably at the median. They may choose that they need to live alone, or only with one roommate. They may choose that they want a nicer place, or a nicer neighborhood (by their standards). Choices.
I'm not saying they're not understandable choices. I made one when I decided to buy myself. I decided to buy in PVD over living alone in a crummier place or getting a roommate in an nicer place. It was a choice though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Then you get those in higher income ranges who actually want a nice house and decent schools for their kids. So yes they COULD afford to live in Lynn and be closer to work, yet that doesn't offer them the community they desire so they move instead to Mansfield. I guess you could say that's a "choice", but let's be realistic here. People also have the responsibility to look after their family's interests and well being.
Sure they do have that responsibility. Of course. Having a family (children) is a choice they make and there is a trade off associated with that. Lots of people (most of my friends) chose not to make that choice and that trade off.
Yet there are many many many many people living in the immediate Boston area earning that much. That's probably at the median. They may choose that they need to live alone, or only with one roommate. They may choose that they want a nicer place, or a nicer neighborhood (by their standards). Choices.
Do you really expect a family of 4 to share a 1 BR apartment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
Sure they do have that responsibility. Of course. Having a family (children) is a choice they make and there is a trade off associated with that. Lots of people (most of my friends) chose not to make that choice and that trade off.
I think you being very unreasonable here, and not living in reality. You strike me as a dreamer or "idealist", not something I necessarily take issue with (has its place in the world). I however am more of a "realist", that is the difference here.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Do you really expect a family of 4 to share a 1 BR apartment? .
Who said anything about a family of four? I know quite a few married folks in my social group and work connections, lots don't have any children, very very few have more than one. The few that do (with rare exception of people who bought decades ago), moved far out of Boston (as a choice), but it was very few... and they then got jobs closer to where they lived (also a choice).
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
I think you being very unreasonable here, and not living in reality. You strike me as a dreamer or "idealist", not something I necessarily take issue with (has its place in the world). I however am more of a "realist", that is the difference here.
I live in reality just fine, thank you.
I know living alone vs roommates is a choice.
I know having children or not is a choice.
That is reality, not fantasy. I make choices in reality all the time, and I deal with the repercussions of those choices.
Perhaps you like to surrender your choices to something else and blame it on what you call "reality"?
Funny. There were some recent town meeting to clear up a defunct rail track from Needham through Boston (Hyde Park)
And most of the opposition was saying things like.. "it will bring trouble from the city in" and " "the yards it runs behind are more susceptible to robberies"
People are dense. it's crazy. i lloked these people straight in the face to see if maybe they had foam coming from their mouths...Nope. Just regular scared misinformed public.
Guess what. They negged the Rail Trail.
Most in Upper middle class America would rather shoot itself in the foot before allowing organic socio economic diversity and/or mobility. They’ve proven that time and time and time again. Nothing surprising here.
People are biking from Hyde Park to Needham to commit a robbery? How would they even scope the neighborhood out first? How would they get the stuff back, why would they bypass West Roxbury? They know you still can bike to needham from Hyde Park right now if you do wish, right?
I live in reality just fine, thank you.
I know living alone vs roommates is a choice.
I know having children or not is a choice.
That is reality, not fantasy. I make choices in reality all the time, and I deal with the repercussions of those choices.
Perhaps you like to surrender your choices to something else and blame it on what you call "reality"?
I don't disagree, at all. Get a good job, get married. Get a home. Then if you have enough money to spare, have a child (or two, or three as you can afford). Look at us, we just solved 99% of the world's problems!
Lots try, but passengers are super impatient. See it all the time in busy downtowns on weekend nights. I see it most weekends, people pulling on locked doors and banging on windows while drivers wait for people ahead of them to move forward so they can pull over. Lots of dealing with drunk kids who aren't the brightest bulbs on the block.
I drive Uber and can confirm. Passengers are super impatient and they absolutely do not think about the traffic around me/them when I pick them up. I try my damned best to not be in the way but they just run up to my car and start yanking my doors (which are automatically locked until I come to a complete and full stop by design)or are nowhere near where they say they are.
Trust me, no uber driver wants to risk a ticket or a car side swiping them, but passengers pick the worst spots and are impatient. The worst is people who think by being on the corner they’re being helpful but they’ve just forced me into the busy intersection...or people who want to get picked up on a street where the speed limit is 45+
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
I don't disagree, at all. Get a good job, get married. Get a home. Then if you have enough money to spare, have a child (or two, or three as you can afford). Look at us, we just solved 99% of the world's problems!
That simple "solution" doesn't really solve 5% of the problems in the world. Never mind 99%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
I drive Uber and can confirm. Passengers are super impatient and they absolutely do not think about the traffic around me/them when I pick them up. I try my damned best to not be in the way but they just run up to my car and start yanking my doors (which are automatically locked until I come to a complete and full stop by design)or are nowhere near where they say they are.
Trust me, no uber driver wants to risk a ticket or a car side swiping them, but passengers pick the worst spots and are impatient. The worst is people who think by being on the corner they’re being helpful but they’ve just forced me into the busy intersection...or people who want to get picked up on a street where the speed limit is 45+
Yup, this is what I hear over and over. Or, the next good thing, people puking in cars/on cars, even peeing in them. Oof.
That simple "solution" doesn't really solve 5% of the problems in the world. Never mind 99%.
You get the point.
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