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Old 04-15-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Metropolis
2,273 posts, read 3,731,687 times
Reputation: 1489

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Wow. 10% of babies are born to illegals? If that's true, that's an astounding statistic.I don't think anyone's saying to stop having babies. I think it is natural that as a society matures the focus shifts from "procreation" to "cocreation". So long as sexual desire exists, babies are still part of that formula. They'd have to be for us to keep existing.One can see the deadend, however, if we function on the mindset of "we need more people to compete!" I guess that's where I've come to - an understanding that there is no need for competition or government control. Perhaps we start moving toward a global civilization like the United States moved beyond the individual states. As such, different countries compete against one another less and share resources more.

Unfortunately, it is absolutely true. Loop hole in the law providing them automatic citizenship. This law apparently was set up in the late 1800's to protect the offspring of freed slaves from being denied citizenship. Talk about misapplication.
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Beautiful New England
2,412 posts, read 6,706,758 times
Reputation: 3065
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Loop hole in the law providing them automatic citizenship. This law apparently was set up in the late 1800's to protect the offspring of freed slaves from being denied citizenship. Talk about misapplication.
WHAT? A LOOPHOLE? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???

This isn't a loophole in the law--it's the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, for pete's sake! An amendment that a Civil War was fought over! An amendment tens of thousands of people spilled their blood for, and suffered and died for! An amendment that corrected the calamitous injustice of Dred Scott v. Sanford (1857).

The Fourteenth Amendment is clear: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. Not just slaves. Not just whites. Legal and illegal alike. Everyone. All persons.

Anyone born in the U.S. who is subject to the laws of the U.S. (and the only people within our borders who is NOT subject to U.S. laws are foreign diplomats stationed here by their respective governments and who enjoy diplomatic immunity ) is a citizen by birthright. It's no loophole; it is part of our constitutional DNA and embedded in the American fabric of life.

So-called patriots who bash illegal immigrants sure have a lot to learn about the nation they are ostensibly trying to protect.
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:54 PM
 
7,352 posts, read 9,556,762 times
Reputation: 1891
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsenator View Post
WHAT? A LOOPHOLE? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???

This isn't a loophole in the law--it's the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, for pete's sake! An amendment that a Civil War was fought over! An amendment tens of thousands of people spilled their blood for, and suffered and died for! An amendment that corrected the calamitous injustice of Dred Scott v. Sanford (1857).

The Fourteenth Amendment is clear: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. Not just slaves. Not just whites. Legal and illegal alike. Everyone. All persons.

Anyone born in the U.S. who is subject to the laws of the U.S. (and the only people within our borders who is NOT subject to U.S. laws are foreign diplomats stationed here by their respective governments and who enjoy diplomatic immunity ) is a citizen by birthright. It's no loophole; it is part of our constitutional DNA and embedded in the American fabric of life.

So-called patriots who bash illegal immigrants sure have a lot to learn about the nation they are ostensibly trying to protect.
Nobody's "bashing" illegal immigrants. However, as someone who comes from a family of legal immigrants, it is unconscionable--in my view--for people to illegally enter the country in order to establish citizenship for their child. Wherever they come from. But I believe this topic is more suitable for another forum.
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Old 04-15-2008, 03:06 PM
 
3,646 posts, read 4,736,978 times
Reputation: 3199
I forgot that New England has a anti-growth kinship with the Pacific Northwest, mainly because of the strength of environmentalism in the latter region.
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Old 04-15-2008, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Metrowest, MA
1,810 posts, read 9,969,084 times
Reputation: 920
Wow... fireworks... I love it...

Btw... If we can get over wanting at least ONE acre lots... there are plenty of land. 4000sq ft house on a 5000sq ft lot. But, why not? Because... I just love to see my neighbor ONLY when I want to... Umm need to put up a fence.

We just don't have enough density to fill bus/train. It is just more efficient to drive to work rather than taking public transportation. Hence, consuming more.
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Old 04-15-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Beautiful New England
2,412 posts, read 6,706,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smarty View Post
Btw... If we can get over wanting at least ONE acre lots... there are plenty of land.

smarty, you're absolutely right. The "shortage of land" in MA is no such thing. Yes, of course, land is a limited resource (as are all resources). But people in MA use this resource especially inefficiently. Instead of developing dense, single family homes on small lots, MA has lots of single family homes on unnecessarily huge lots. You could subdivided every 2 acre lot in the state into 3 or 4 decent sized suburban lots, build homes on them, and see the cost of housing decline significantly in MA as the result of the new supply of housing. This, of course, will happen on the third day of never.

Like everything else, housing costs are a function of supply and demand. By mandating big lot sizes and prohibiting the construction of large scale multi-family developments, MA communities sharply limit housing supply. Net result? Prices go up.
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Old 04-15-2008, 04:43 PM
 
15,968 posts, read 28,305,918 times
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A lot of zoning doesn't allow cluster housing.
Areas with septic systems need a varying amount of space to get a septic system in- it's kind of circular- you won't have the density to put in town sewer if you already have larger lots for the need for septic system.
My system cost almost $30K. I'll be damned if I'd vote for town sewer on top of that (and pay for hookup).
In my area, smaller lots with septic have been grandfathered in. If new construction, the septic has to meet much more stringent requirements.
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:31 PM
 
2,592 posts, read 4,882,049 times
Reputation: 1947
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsenator View Post
smarty, you're absolutely right. The "shortage of land" in MA is no such thing. Yes, of course, land is a limited resource (as are all resources). But people in MA use this resource especially inefficiently. Instead of developing dense, single family homes on small lots, MA has lots of single family homes on unnecessarily huge lots. You could subdivided every 2 acre lot in the state into 3 or 4 decent sized suburban lots, build homes on them, and see the cost of housing decline significantly in MA as the result of the new supply of housing. This, of course, will happen on the third day of never.

Like everything else, housing costs are a function of supply and demand. By mandating big lot sizes and prohibiting the construction of large scale multi-family developments, MA communities sharply limit housing supply. Net result? Prices go up.
Right on, and add that with all the conservation land and strict building requirements makes the land scarce. I don't want houses on top of each other and no parks or anything, but you have to be smart about using land.

Just look how many small population towns are around Boston and that are really expensive: Weston, Lincoln, Sudbury, etc. Most of those towns are quite big in land area, have large lots, and therefore quite exclusive and expensive.
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Metropolis
2,273 posts, read 3,731,687 times
Reputation: 1489
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsenator View Post
WHAT? A LOOPHOLE? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???

This isn't a loophole in the law--it's the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, for pete's sake! An amendment that a Civil War was fought over! An amendment tens of thousands of people spilled their blood for, and suffered and died for! An amendment that corrected the calamitous injustice of Dred Scott v. Sanford (1857).

The Fourteenth Amendment is clear: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. Not just slaves. Not just whites. Legal and illegal alike. Everyone. All persons.

Anyone born in the U.S. who is subject to the laws of the U.S. (and the only people within our borders who is NOT subject to U.S. laws are foreign diplomats stationed here by their respective governments and who enjoy diplomatic immunity ) is a citizen by birthright. It's no loophole; it is part of our constitutional DNA and embedded in the American fabric of life.

So-called patriots who bash illegal immigrants sure have a lot to learn about the nation they are ostensibly trying to protect.


So they set up that provision for whites at that time as well as for Mexicans, which is a country they where recently at war with, are you kidding me. You need to read the amendment more clearly. "Subject of the Jurisdiction of. Why would they throw that little term of legal ambiquity in there? Babies born in this country from illegal aliens are not subject to the jurisdication of this country because they aren't supposed to be here in the first place. Forget about the technicalities, these babies parents broke the law just to have a child here to help "them" to be able to stay. I would consider that a gross abuse of this "loophole". I definitely know of Koreans who go to travel agents who specialize in "birth holidays", they bring these pregnant women in to the U.S. close to the time of delivery so the children can have U.S. citizenship.

OH, and this amendmant was set up to protect slaves and their offspring, so don't ****ing try and twist the facts on this law set up to reverse one of the greatest travesties of the history of mankind to your benefit. Babies and their illegal mommas and papas gotta go. Nauseated
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Old 04-17-2008, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
4,459 posts, read 6,879,688 times
Reputation: 1237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre View Post
I forgot that New England has a anti-growth kinship with the Pacific Northwest, mainly because of the strength of environmentalism in the latter region.
New Englanders believe in sustainable growth that protects the environment, quality of life and historic past to future generations, so they can enjoy the beauty of our region- much like the Pacific Northwest. Mindless suburban sprawl, with cheesy cookie cutter development and subdivisions,tacky omnipresent strip malls and a trashing of the environment for 'growths sake' for short term gain at the expense of destroying the quality of life in the region are the Antithesis of what New England is.
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