U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-08-2019, 01:10 PM
 
13 posts, read 7,544 times
Reputation: 82

Advertisements

Sorry, the smile tag doesn't diminish the sneer.

I know Framingham quite well and it is a big, mixed up, interesting, varied kind of place. The downtown, the center of the southern half of the town which was for many years a mill town, is in rough shape and has been for a long time. Drive a few miles away, still in the southern part of town, and you have the country estates and big new houses that border Ashland and Sherborn. Route 9 divides the place and brings a honky kind of anywhere strip mall America to the town, along with an awful lot of traffic. North of route 9, classic suburbia with vast stretches of 50s Campanelli slab ranches, very cool in their own way and on roomy lots and a beautiful town common surrounded by historic buildings. Further north, the place looks surprisingly like the rural parts of Concord or neighboring Sudbury: beautiful homes on lots of land.

I have to believe time will be kind to Framingham. The diversity of the town's population, the proximity to the rail line and the highways to Boston, the huge range of housing and a stubbornly hard working school system, will eventually find the kind of redevelopment that has been taking place in Waltham. It won't surprise me to read one day in the Globe about young professional families "rediscovering" what Framingham has to offer.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-08-2019, 01:19 PM
 
13,512 posts, read 10,260,851 times
Reputation: 7489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buitenzorg View Post
I have to believe time will be kind to Framingham. The diversity of the town's population, the proximity to the rail line and the highways to Boston, the huge range of housing and a stubbornly hard working school system, will eventually find the kind of redevelopment that has been taking place in Waltham. It won't surprise me to read one day in the Globe about young professional families "rediscovering" what Framingham has to offer.
I agree, I guess its main issue is that (like much of "metro-west") it's just a hard place to "love". Lacks a homey feel to it. Functionality wise, it's fine.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-08-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: North of Boston
3,326 posts, read 5,986,444 times
Reputation: 3114
Thread from 4 years ago...

http://www.city-data.com/forum/massa...nt-middle.html
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 03:06 PM
 
4 posts, read 2,293 times
Reputation: 24
Panchilly,

I read a few of your threads and I dont fundamentally dispute your thesis that jobs might migrate to the 128 belt in greater numbers in the future and demographics will push millenials outwards.

But applying your very metrics it would seem that Waltham is clearly the most superior buy, followed parts of Dedham/Westwood and even Weston/Dover offers superior value. It would seem disingenuous to so aggressively push Natick as adjusted for current value and ease of access I would even consider Norwood to be of superior value.

Ive no doubt that you will come to a much more lucid conclusion and save yourself much spite on this forum if you can disentangle your vested interests in Natick. The market will not move differently because of any one persons preferences or action; you've got some promising (albeit deeply flawed at this point) ideas trying to analyze job access.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 05:07 PM
 
840 posts, read 367,489 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakouretes View Post
I read a few of your threads and I dont fundamentally dispute your thesis that jobs might migrate to the 128 belt in greater numbers in the future and demographics will push millenials outwards.
Jobs were migrating out to the burbs/128... then 2008 happened. Millenials can't afford a car and thus can't really live in a place like Framingham.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 06:25 PM
 
601 posts, read 348,154 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakouretes View Post
Panchilly,

I read a few of your threads and I dont fundamentally dispute your thesis that jobs might migrate to the 128 belt in greater numbers in the future and demographics will push millenials outwards.

But applying your very metrics it would seem that Waltham is clearly the most superior buy, followed parts of Dedham/Westwood and even Weston/Dover offers superior value. It would seem disingenuous to so aggressively push Natick as adjusted for current value and ease of access I would even consider Norwood to be of superior value.

Ive no doubt that you will come to a much more lucid conclusion and save yourself much spite on this forum if you can disentangle your vested interests in Natick. The market will not move differently because of any one persons preferences or action; you've got some promising (albeit deeply flawed at this point) ideas trying to analyze job access.
Waltham is a great spot but the schools aren’t good. I don’t think Dedham, Westwood, Norwood, or Dover offer a location advantage over natick. I think natick has a better location than all of those. Waltham indeed has a better location than natick I’ll give you that. Same with Weston but have you seen the prices there? Hard to find anything resembling value in that town.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 06:38 PM
 
13,512 posts, read 10,260,851 times
Reputation: 7489
I think Dedham vs. Natick is a pretty close contest. Dedham has better access to Boston and the southern arc of 128, while Natick has better access to the northern arc (where bulk of the jobs are) as well as all the Metro-West jobs. Natick probably has better schools.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 06:42 PM
 
601 posts, read 348,154 times
Reputation: 218
I agree it’s a pretty close contest with Dedham and also Westwood. I think natick edges them both out slightly.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 10:15 PM
 
4 posts, read 2,293 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by panchilly View Post
Waltham is a great spot but the schools aren’t good. I don’t think Dedham, Westwood, Norwood, or Dover offer a location advantage over natick. I think natick has a better location than all of those. Waltham indeed has a better location than natick I’ll give you that. Same with Weston but have you seen the prices there? Hard to find anything resembling value in that town.
Ive lived in Weston for the last couple of years and I assure you that for the comparable 6000-10000 sqft house Weston will be at least 15% cheaper than comparable commute areas of Waban, Auburndale, Wellesley Cliff Estates, or even the northern part of Lexington. (thats even totally disregarding the fact that the weston house will sit on 1+ acres while the others sit on 1/4 of an acre at best) Needless to say same-house comps for Winchester, Belmont and Brookline are far more expensive due to cambridge commute premium. Heck id say half of the 4m+ houses in Weston still cant fetch the prices achieved in 2005 (tastes have changed, this eclectic arts and crafts/cape style is all the rage), though the under 1.25M segment in Weston is rapidly picking up recently. So indeed for people in that market segment Weston represents incredible value.

If you drive through Dover some parts of it will make even Weston feel tacky and arriviste; and currently Dover prices are grievously punished for its tier 2 commute. Once people escape the rats race but still want the city they will gravitate to places of natural beauty like Dover or Manchester or even Pride's Crossing. (though i will admit bio/tech new money is on the march and dictating the RE market more than old money)

Dedham is a wash with North side Natick when it comes to 128 north arc, and vastly superior for the south 128 arc. South Natick might as well be Sherborn in terms of commuting 128; at least the lane widening is done to exit 19. I will give schools to Natick, but Dedham beats Natick handily for commuting and amenities. Westwood is identical to Dedham commute wise and I would say value-wise its a wash; you pay for the schools and environment, though Westwood might have one of the bigger wealth disparities for MA towns. But imo both are slightly superior to Natick in value.

Waltham is the elephant in the room here, if jobs do move out to 128 it will become the second coming of Somerville. If your betting on resuburbanization you'd be foolish to not have some exposure to Waltham, the town will be a whole level denser than Natick/Framingham/Norwood/Dedham.

Norwood/Billerica/Reading/Wakefield is where things get interesting for me and I dont feel knowledgeable enough to comment.

The only scenario where Natick outpaces all of the above is that jobs migrate evenly between 128 and 495. In which case Southborough/Framinghams will be superior value anyways. But personally I feel given Boston traffic 128 might be more feasible.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2019, 10:58 PM
 
601 posts, read 348,154 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakouretes View Post
Ive lived in Weston for the last couple of years and I assure you that for the comparable 6000-10000 sqft house Weston will be at least 15% cheaper than comparable commute areas of Waban, Auburndale, Wellesley Cliff Estates, or even the northern part of Lexington. (thats even totally disregarding the fact that the weston house will sit on 1+ acres while the others sit on 1/4 of an acre at best) Needless to say same-house comps for Winchester, Belmont and Brookline are far more expensive due to cambridge commute premium. Heck id say half of the 4m+ houses in Weston still cant fetch the prices achieved in 2005 (tastes have changed, this eclectic arts and crafts/cape style is all the rage), though the under 1.25M segment in Weston is rapidly picking up recently. So indeed for people in that market segment Weston represents incredible value.

If you drive through Dover some parts of it will make even Weston feel tacky and arriviste; and currently Dover prices are grievously punished for its tier 2 commute. Once people escape the rats race but still want the city they will gravitate to places of natural beauty like Dover or Manchester or even Pride's Crossing. (though i will admit bio/tech new money is on the march and dictating the RE market more than old money)

Dedham is a wash with North side Natick when it comes to 128 north arc, and vastly superior for the south 128 arc. South Natick might as well be Sherborn in terms of commuting 128; at least the lane widening is done to exit 19. I will give schools to Natick, but Dedham beats Natick handily for commuting and amenities. Westwood is identical to Dedham commute wise and I would say value-wise its a wash; you pay for the schools and environment, though Westwood might have one of the bigger wealth disparities for MA towns. But imo both are slightly superior to Natick in value.

Waltham is the elephant in the room here, if jobs do move out to 128 it will become the second coming of Somerville. If your betting on resuburbanization you'd be foolish to not have some exposure to Waltham, the town will be a whole level denser than Natick/Framingham/Norwood/Dedham.

Norwood/Billerica/Reading/Wakefield is where things get interesting for me and I dont feel knowledgeable enough to comment.

The only scenario where Natick outpaces all of the above is that jobs migrate evenly between 128 and 495. In which case Southborough/Framinghams will be superior value anyways. But personally I feel given Boston traffic 128 might be more feasible.
Dedham does not beat natick for commuting. The opposite is true - check google maps at rush hour. You are wrong about the 128 north arc. Most areas of natick have a significant advantage over Dedham as you can take back roads through Weston and come out further up 128 around exit 26. From Dedham you are stuck in gridlock. Run google maps estimates and you’ll see

Natick to 128 north is on par with needham. The south arc doesn’t matter as much natick is already a 30min rush hour commute to the south arc and there are fewer jobs there. Natick also has the pike with 495 access.

Dedham has more amenities than natick? No way.

Your point about Waltham. I wouldn’t be so sure Waltham is the next Cambridge. It might be but a lot of that will depend on the willingness of the city to allow development. Framingham is allowing a ton of development so it could just as easily be Framingham as the next hot market instead of Waltham.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top