Springfield #41 deadliest city. (Boston, Chicopee, Weymouth: condo, home, college)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The working class Springfield white flight towns vote republican just like that south shore town you came from. It's the same demographic. It's just that it's harder to get Howie Carr on the radio and you won't find a Herald delivered to your doorstep.

Towns like Hanover, Duxbury, and East Longmeadow "working class"??? Who would have known...

[tovarisch]

I thought the Forum was supposed to be free of this sort of meanness. I see no reason for you to have attacked me as you did, nor to have made the assumptions that you did. Since I know Springfield pretty well, I am aware that some white people dislike it becasue of non-white folks there. That's my only point.

[BostonBornMassMade]

I’m very sure Springfield being 69% minority doesn’t help make it more attractive to most in New England and makes it unattractive to a good chunk of people, but there’s a lot to dislike about that city.

[mdovell]

Attacking people doesn't make glue a good argument. I have family in Quincy and I have family is grown up in Quincy and I'll probably actually pop in there tomorrow to visit some relatives. There's some people that probably don't want the agents there and in particular the Chinese. But if it wasn't for them Quincy would have had a much smaller population and would have declined significantly. Immigration makes us a great country we need it it's natural and if you don't like somebody because of what they are said of who they are then keep it with yourself.

As for working-class to be frank we really don't have much for working class jobs are more professional ice now. This week I'm probably going to make more on my investments then I will working

In an earlier thread I mentioned how the suburbs are gradually not growing in Massachusetts. To which the responses know you're wrong and then I mentioned Weymouth and then that becomes an outlier and then I find more research about other towns that are not growing orange back shrinking. This isn't me talking this is the actual Town reports from the towns.
Earlier there were claims that somehow the suburbs were this massive growing place. I cited weymouth and then it was argued to be an outlier. Well here’s the problem with that. When it comes down to it there are many communities that are flat or in some cases shrinking. You have to go to the actual town annual reports and frankly not all towns have this information.

Rockland Ma
https://www.rockland-ma.gov/sites/ro...ads/2018tr.pdf
see page 8

Federal Census Town Census
2010 17,489 2018 17,937
2000 17,670 2017 17,808
1990 16,123 2016 17,815

This is hardly growth. 33 people annually since 2010. 0.01% growth annually


Pembroke Annual Town Report see page 16
https://www.pembroke-ma.gov/sites/pe...port_final.pdf
2018 19,079
2017 19,004
2016 19,352
2015 19,473
2014 19,563
2013 19,417
2012 19,265
2011 19,071
2010 18,892

At first it looks like growth. Heck over the course of decades it is…until it isn’t. It peaked in 2014 and it’s now about 2.4%. Now that might not sounds like that big of a loss it IS a loss. 484 people down since peak in 2014. It’s only a 0.09% increase since 2010 and about the same population as 2011. It’s pretty much been a flat decade. Now if it keeps going down and I’d argue that is true within the next few years it is aging out like many other towns.

People that are more affluent tend to have fewer children, we can agree on that. But once they leave that’s it. The place ages out. If you aren’t welcoming to people that are “different” the greying happens just like the Berkshires and cape but at a slower pace.

First the student population drops (Pembroke is down 30% from peak, this is already stated at their meetings)
Then the general population drops
Then the employers start pulling out (Country Curtains, Olympia Sports, Papa Ginos so far).
Major chains start pulling out and the high cost structure means smaller ones cannot afford it so they stay empty.
Retirement of other businesses. A jewelry store closed, bakery moved, bike shop closed and music store. Cost of operations is just too much
To the layperson it might look like growth of construction but that’s mostly for services that have replaced goods (medical care mostly) Traffic is more from people coming in rather then internal traffic .

[BostonBornMassMade]

I can also attest to the fact that most MA suburbs have minimal growth or are stagnant

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I’m very sure Springfield being 69% minority doesn’t help make it more attractive to most in New England and makes it unattractive to a good chunk of people, but there’s a lot to dislike about that city.

Cities are where most people live. Those that live in suburbs and rural areas are a minority in this country.

Diversity helps with marketing as frankly younger people are more diverse.

If suburbs were attractive they'd still be growing. Lower birth rates and a federal clampdown on immigration are going to continue to shrink towns.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

I thought the Forum was supposed to be free of this sort of meanness. I see no reason for you to have attacked me as you did, nor to have made the assumptions that you did. Since I know Springfield pretty well, I am aware that some white people dislike it becasue of non-white folks there. That's my only point.

Don't worry about it---some people are just cranky and obstinate by nature..

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by mdovell

If suburbs were attractive they'd still be growing. Lower birth rates and a federal clampdown on immigration are going to continue to shrink towns.

I don't know if it's an attractive thing or that people are getting poorer and thus can't live the suburb lifestyle, have kids, a car, etc. It's much easier to make it work if you are only supporting yourself, living with roommates and using public transit.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by tovarisch

I thought the Forum was supposed to be free of this sort of meanness. I see no reason for you to have attacked me as you did, nor to have made the assumptions that you did. Since I know Springfield pretty well, I am aware that some white people dislike it becasue of non-white folks there. That's my only point.

PLEASE bro. YOU made the attack. You blatantly accused somebody (not sure it was myself or somebody else but whatever) of being racist. Not one person on this thread said anything about race until you brought it up. Well...there was that poor white working class rust belt Trump country nonsense but I honestly don't believe it was meant as "racist" however clownish it might be. To say that "well Springfield is minority majority, so therefore ANYBODY daring to point out an unflattering statistic about the city MUST be a racist"...that's the kind of thing City-Data is supposed to be above. This type of childish stuff is better relegated to a Facebook rant.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Attacking people doesn't make glue a good argument. I have family in Quincy and I have family is grown up in Quincy and I'll probably actually pop in there tomorrow to visit some relatives. There's some people that probably don't want the agents there and in particular the Chinese. But if it wasn't for them Quincy would have had a much smaller population and would have declined significantly. Immigration makes us a great country we need it it's natural and if you don't like somebody because of what they are said of who they are then keep it with yourself.

As for working-class to be frank we really don't have much for working class jobs are more professional ice now. This week I'm probably going to make more on my investments then I will working

In an earlier thread I mentioned how the suburbs are gradually not growing in Massachusetts. To which the responses know you're wrong and then I mentioned Weymouth and then that becomes an outlier and then I find more research about other towns that are not growing orange back shrinking. This isn't me talking this is the actual Town reports from the towns.
Earlier there were claims that somehow the suburbs were this massive growing place. I cited weymouth and then it was argued to be an outlier. Well here’s the problem with that. When it comes down to it there are many communities that are flat or in some cases shrinking. You have to go to the actual town annual reports and frankly not all towns have this information.

Rockland Ma
https://www.rockland-ma.gov/sites/ro...ads/2018tr.pdf
see page 8

Federal Census Town Census
2010 17,489 2018 17,937
2000 17,670 2017 17,808
1990 16,123 2016 17,815

This is hardly growth. 33 people annually since 2010. 0.01% growth annually


Pembroke Annual Town Report see page 16
https://www.pembroke-ma.gov/sites/pe...port_final.pdf
2018 19,079
2017 19,004
2016 19,352
2015 19,473
2014 19,563
2013 19,417
2012 19,265
2011 19,071
2010 18,892

At first it looks like growth. Heck over the course of decades it is…until it isn’t. It peaked in 2014 and it’s now about 2.4%. Now that might not sounds like that big of a loss it IS a loss. 484 people down since peak in 2014. It’s only a 0.09% increase since 2010 and about the same population as 2011. It’s pretty much been a flat decade. Now if it keeps going down and I’d argue that is true within the next few years it is aging out like many other towns.

People that are more affluent tend to have fewer children, we can agree on that. But once they leave that’s it. The place ages out. If you aren’t welcoming to people that are “different” the greying happens just like the Berkshires and cape but at a slower pace.

First the student population drops (Pembroke is down 30% from peak, this is already stated at their meetings)
Then the general population drops
Then the employers start pulling out (Country Curtains, Olympia Sports, Papa Ginos so far).
Major chains start pulling out and the high cost structure means smaller ones cannot afford it so they stay empty.
Retirement of other businesses. A jewelry store closed, bakery moved, bike shop closed and music store. Cost of operations is just too much
To the layperson it might look like growth of construction but that’s mostly for services that have replaced goods (medical care mostly) Traffic is more from people coming in rather then internal traffic .

This cherry picking of towns does not prove your point, although still both towns you mentioned did grow in the past year. All Boston suburbs posted population growth. Often slow growth or steady growth, but growth nevertheless. To suggest they are declining or dying is laughable. And your Weymouth example (which happened to grow by 7%+ since 2010) blew right up in your face. Other than declining birth rates (which is a nationwide problem not just the suburbs), nothing you say aligns with reality. The suburbs are more diverse than ever, and becoming even more so by the year. Immigrants are settling there for the same reason the Irish/Italians/Greeks of yore did.