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Old 12-23-2019, 04:58 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,476 posts, read 28,557,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
, where are the craft breweries? .



Seriously? Plymouth, Norton, Fall River, Westport, New Bedford, Raynham, Lakeville, etc etc. How many do you want?
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Old 12-23-2019, 06:42 PM
 
12,387 posts, read 9,634,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
Eh, I'm not sure how that makes the South Shore all that different from any other large suburban area. It's not "losing people." It may not be as attractive to recent college grads, but that's largely due to the price and type of homes available (large, expensive homes) and lack of amenities for young/single adults. I'm not saying the area couldn't use a boost on that front, but generally that's your boilerplate suburbia/bedroom community problem (if you want to call it a problem). I'm all for more jobs going in on the South Shore, but there are only a handful of realistic options. In reality, the region will likely remain a region that's mostly family-centric bedroom communities. There's really nothing wrong with that.

Have to disagree on parks as well. Myles Standish is the largest state park east of the Berkshires. You have dozens of beaches from Quincy and Hull all the way down to the Cape. You have Blue Hills, Wompatuck, World's End, Kingston State Forest, and dozens of other smaller municipal parks, preserves, and public lands throughout the region. Outdoor recreational opportunities is hardly a shortcoming for the South Shore.

There is a need of more good jobs south of Boston, for sure. A casino isn't the answer. Between Plainridge, Twin Rivers, Tiverton (and now Everett)...the area is SATURATED. EXTREMELY short sighted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Areas are losing people. I moved from a town that stopped growing and is now negative. Population is now where it was in 2011.If there's no increase in the census it was a flat decade at best.

Most towns don't have a park commission. I had a debate with a planning board member on this. If you have an actual park dept it opens up grants. I know of town forests that just aren't anything. You can't simply have a few trails and a baseball field. Moreover if you don't have a Forrester you don't have any one looking at the health of the trees. Dw in Brockton has a ton of potential if they had the funding.

Beaches car. Nantasket was one of the best on the eastern seaboard but it wasn't maintained.

It isn't rural, it's suburban. The trees don't feed you. Fishing is fine but without bait and tackle shops... Bass pro shops are REI are great but there just isn't enough. No ethnic festivals, no religious festivals, little diversity in suburbs, no music or food festivals, where are the craft breweries? Talk to those in high school and higher ed if they want to come back.

If we don't have immigrants communities have to court and cater to younger people and get them to stay. Again I'm not saying it's a casino but you have to bring in something.

Here we go. Are you referring to Weymouth again??? You have been proven wrong already. The town grew by a good 7% over the past decade, nothing amazing but hardly "negative". No bait and tackle shops??? I can name several without even looking them up. No diversity??? Your own beloved Weymouth has a significant Asian and Brazilian population as well as much economic diversity. It almost seems to me like you are creating your own reality in order to compensate for the severely broken state of your newly adopted locale.
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Old 12-24-2019, 03:32 AM
 
5,157 posts, read 4,844,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Seriously? Plymouth, Norton, Fall River, Westport, New Bedford, Raynham, Lakeville, etc etc. How many do you want?
How about Whitman, Hanson, carver etc. Seriously the area is the size of RI if not bigger.
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Old 12-24-2019, 03:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
There is a need of more good jobs south of Boston, for sure. A casino isn't the answer. Between Plainridge, Twin Rivers, Tiverton (and now Everett)...the area is SATURATED. EXTREMELY short sighted.





Here we go. Are you referring to Weymouth again??? You have been proven wrong already. The town grew by a good 7% over the past decade, nothing amazing but hardly "negative". No bait and tackle shops??? I can name several without even looking them up. No diversity??? Your own beloved Weymouth has a significant Asian and Brazilian population as well as much economic diversity. It almost seems to me like you are creating your own reality in order to compensate for the severely broken state of your newly adopted locale.
You actually proved my point they erode amenities for houses. Building houses instead of preserving historic districts etc. It's just bland suburbs. Do yeah no diversity. Brazilians are queen Ann's gate I've been by there a thousand times in the past 35 years and my brother lived there for awhile.

Again where are the ethnic restaurants, where the religious festivals, where the Civic groups, where the music festival etc. These are all over the place in Western and Central Mass but it's hardly seen in Southeastern Mass. Brockton can have a bit but then there's this whole anti Brockton mentality some times that it just dismisses anything that occurs there.

Again I just said the region could use something maybe it's a Convention Center maybe it's a larger music venue. Don't tell me the South Shore music circus is somehow a major entity in at itself that's something that elderly people go to on weekends it's not exactly something a huge draw. You also have pretty much no real public transit outside of the urban areas. This might not mean as much at first but as a population becomes more elderly it's going to have to need something for people that justified to live there. Take any suburb and if people can't drive and they can't walk due to a lack of sidewalks and public lighting they are stuck.

Would it be asking too much to maybe get I don't know maybe at a petting zoo or maybe a Botanical Garden? Maybe a bike repair shop or putting a new bike Lanes or how about some new bakery or restaurants or maybe an inside Farmers Market. How about a real legit Museum that isn't necessarily dedicated to local history? Again as I mentioned before it's the Long Island of Massachusetts they all depend on Boston instead of New York beachfront looks nice and I'm sure the people are nice but everybody just commutes and this frankly just not much else there.
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:55 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,476 posts, read 28,557,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
How about Whitman, Hanson, carver etc. Seriously the area is the size of RI if not bigger.


Geographic size doesn't mean squat.


Whitman has a brewery. Old Colony Brewing.


Hanson is 10k people. It's a pimple. And each one of these towns has another small town with a brewery nextdoor. Weymouth has a brewery. Braintree brewery. Bridgewater brewery. Hanover brewery. These are small small places, and each But there is no shortage of breweries there. None. You can't go two towns without one. Nor a shortage ofevents, or of festivals.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post

Again where are the ethnic restaurants, where the religious festivals, where the Civic groups, where the music festival etc. These are all over the place in Western and Central Mass but it's hardly seen in Southeastern Mass. Brockton can have a bit but then there's this whole anti Brockton mentality some times that it just dismisses anything that occurs there.
You mean like the music festival that happens in Marshfield every year that is jam packed? Or any of the other ones that you apparently never have heard of?

You are sadly misinformed. Again.

Last edited by timberline742; 12-24-2019 at 06:08 AM..
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Geographic size doesn't mean squat.


Whitman has a brewery. Old Colony Brewing.


Hanson is 10k people. It's a pimple. And each one of these towns has another small town with a brewery nextdoor. Weymouth has a brewery. Braintree brewery. Bridgewater brewery. Hanover brewery. These are small small places, and each But there is no shortage of breweries there. None. You can't go two towns without one. Nor a shortage ofevents, or of festivals.





You mean like the music festival that happens in Marshfield every year that is jam packed? Or any of the other ones that you apparently never have heard of?

You are sadly misinformed. Again.
It does mean squat because if it isn't put together it just means more and more driving. Indeed Whitman does have that...in a stripmall next to a nail salon, a vape shop and a empty unit in a building that looks like an industrial hanger. Some places can make that good. Hartford has a bit of that. None of the ones that you mention are in a downtown walkable area. None...Hanover is by rt 3 isolated. Braintree is by I93. I'm fine with places being small but it is an odd argument to tell people not to drink and drive and then at the same time tell them to drive to a brewery. There's a great vanilla beer at Hingham Beerworks which I recommend.

You mean the one at the fairgrounds? I'm well aware of the fair and the flea market. But that's outside, that's easy. You have to have some type of stadium to ensure things year round. If something like the Tsongas arena or mass mutual center could be made. Say 3,000 to 5,000 people with multiple stages. Seasonal events are great but if seasons are only one or two in the year it makes it harder to work.

Here's a basic example. You have a town with some ponds and lakes. Ok you have swimming lessons in the spring and summer, boat races in the summer,you have fishing tournaments that go on for maybe a week, you have ice skating competitions in the winter. You take advantage with education and high schoolers make boats (I know that's done in Marshfield but more of it would be good). You have locally sourced food at restaurants. Obviously cranberries would work here but outside of Thanksgiving they are hardly seen. How many source turkey from Bongi's turkey farm? When you have chains they usually don't source locally.

There's plenty of shortages of events and festivals. Much of the area does look the same. What's the difference between Rockland and Abington? Halifax and Plympton? Cohasset and Scituate? People look the same, houses look the same, businesses look the same. Not much for diversity. If a place feels the same there's no real incentive for time or place. Don't get me wrong there's no issues with say the schools but the obsession of making houses non stop for the past 25-30 years totally eroded the character, culture and history of the area. It's hard to argue to pay 400K for a bedroom community where most people just go home and watch tv the rest of the day. Moreover even if you did have events there's no residency requirement so that further neglects the purpose of paying higher housing prices.

You have to have something more than just saying "my kids can go to school here" for long-term sustainable population. Without immigrants and students areas age out. It doesn't matter where. The problems of the Berkshires have spread to Franklin county and Cape Code is spreading to south east ma.

there are people that would love to go out to have a good night out. But that's harder to do if everything is spread out. It shouldn't take much to have live music or an open mic night. But time and time again entertainment gets squashed. I lived in the region for decades, talked to plenty of small businesses and went to higher ed in the region. Many are leaving or they pretty much give up hope in that something would change or be an attractant.
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Old 12-24-2019, 08:02 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,476 posts, read 28,557,001 times
Reputation: 35932
There you go, changing the goal posts. Now the brewery has to be in an area you like to in order for it to count.


And music festivals don't matter unless there is a multi stage permanent event theatre (something absolutely NONE of the music fests I go to have ever had).

Listen, Western Mass, and much of the U.S. is no different. You're not walking to Vanished Valley, or Tree House, or most places out there. It's full of non descript and run down housing too. The festivals, when they occur, are really spread out.

There are also plenty of places where you can walk around and have a night out. Done it plenty of times in Plymouth, New Bedford, Fall River, etc. Yes, you generally need to be in a city to do that. Big whoop. And no, no shortage of live music either in the region. Happening all the damn time.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:21 AM
 
8,279 posts, read 10,243,965 times
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How about we support the construction of something beneficial to society, rather than more casinos, and all the problems that come with them? Are we that bankrupt of ideas that we always resort to this kind of solution?
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:24 AM
 
5,157 posts, read 4,844,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
There you go, changing the goal posts. Now the brewery has to be in an area you like to in order for it to count.


And music festivals don't matter unless there is a multi stage permanent event theatre (something absolutely NONE of the music fests I go to have ever had).

Listen, Western Mass, and much of the U.S. is no different. You're not walking to Vanished Valley, or Tree House, or most places out there. It's full of non descript and run down housing too. The festivals, when they occur, are really spread out.

There are also plenty of places where you can walk around and have a night out. Done it plenty of times in Plymouth, New Bedford, Fall River, etc. Yes, you generally need to be in a city to do that. Big whoop. And no, no shortage of live music either in the region. Happening all the damn time.

Of course New Bedford and Fall River (and to a point) northern Plymouth. But what about the rest of the region.

I'm talking about actually having a downtown that is walkable. Not everyone can physically drive, not all can afford it and not all can actually do it. As people get older eventually they won't. It doesn't matter where. A 71 year old actually hit me head on about a year ago on her way to eye surgery in Boston I'm ok but there was back and forth with the insurance for months.

It's easier for a urban area to redevelop vs a actually doing initial development in a suburban area. If Fall River/New Bedford or Plymouth wants to put in for region C it's fine by me. Again all I'm getting at is the actual feeling of having a community that has some form of a center, a commons if you will that is walkable is just alien in the area. Designing an area around one thing and then having it change doesn't help in the long run.
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Old 12-24-2019, 09:34 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
38,476 posts, read 28,557,001 times
Reputation: 35932
Ok, got it. You want small towns of 10k, 15k, to have walkable urban cores for all its residents. Yeah, that makes sense.
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