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I am not a native to this state, it's all about what you want from life and what type of community and lifestyle you want for yourself. Having moved from Western NJ- which I preferred to MA, here are what I see as the positives: Massachussetts has great higher education, all the colleges and universities provide a stimulating intellectual environment. The job market here is strong, in fact I moved here for my job and I get calls all the time from companies looking to hire. There is good proximity to Vermont and New Hampshire, for outdoor recreation.
Here is the downside (and again this is just MY opinion):
-Its expensive. HIgh taxes, high cost of living.
-IMO, the greater Boston area is one of the worst housing markets in the country. Maybe SF is worse. It's 90% old stock, tiny little cracker box cape homes, most with no garages. There are few developments with sidewalks or any kind of infrastructure. More like houses just built everywhere along winding roads.
-The roads absolutely suck. NOt only do they not have the capacity to carry traffic, but they are always full of potholes.
-The traffic sucks most places. In my town, every morning traffic is backed up through the town for 2 miles.
-The drivers suck. They are constantly randomly stopping to let people out of parking lots or sidestreets. Right of way doesn't exist here. In short it takes forever to go anywhere here due to the traffic and bad roads.
The weather is generally awful, compared to other parts of the country.
People are not that friendly compared to other places I've lived.
Of course there are people who LOVE Boston, and that's good-for them. I cannot wait to leave this state.
Yes, coming from NJ is a huge upgrade when coming to Mass... We used to go to a house in Sussex County on Lake Owassa. The place has really gone downhill out there. But my parents said the same thing as you, and they realized the grass isn't greener on the other side. The housing stock is atrocious, ridiculously expensive or else you're stuck with what you said. 10 years ago you could really get anything you wanted in the area, but now you have to be a multi-millionaire to afford good stock unless you want to live out in Framingham or Rockland. But what do you expect? Mass isnt New Jersey? Its a hell of a lot more expensive and wealthy.
However I will counter you on 'it takes forever to go anywhere'. You obviously have not been to gridlock Jersey, red light central Florida or Parking Lot Expressway LA... I find the roads, especially in the suburbs to be much freeflowing than other parts of the country. Wellesley to the airport is like 25 minutes on the pike. Its great. In Orlando where we lived, it took 30 minutes to go 7 miles on a not so crazy traffic heavy road because there were 90 sets of lights. In NJ.. the roads are so poorly designed every suburb has a backlog into their town. My friends from bergen County ditched NJ as soon as they got the first job outside NJ that paid over 40k a year. Other than NJ's poor quality of life, you literally could not escape the 8 hour rush hour traffic lol... Once you leave the immediate vicinity of Boston there really is no traffic? Its bad in Boston, but its also a very urban dense built city lol. Traffic is top 10 worst, but what do you expect?
Its all what you make of it. But one thing my family has learned, the grass isn't greener on the other side
Last edited by masssachoicetts; 01-01-2020 at 07:19 PM..
Yes, coming from NJ is a huge upgrade when coming to Mass... We used to go to a house in Sussex County on Lake Owassa. The place has really gone downhill out there. But my parents said the same thing as you, and they realized the grass isn't greener on the other side. The housing stock is atrocious, ridiculously expensive or else you're stuck with what you said. 10 years ago you could really get anything you wanted in the area, but now you have to be a multi-millionaire to afford good stock unless you want to live out in Framingham or Rockland. But what do you expect? Mass isnt New Jersey? Its a hell of a lot more expensive and wealthy.
However I will counter you on 'it takes forever to go anywhere'. You obviously have not been to gridlock Jersey, red light central Florida or Parking Lot Expressway LA... I find the roads, especially in the suburbs to be much freeflowing than other parts of the country. Wellesley to the airport is like 25 minutes on the pike. Its great. In Orlando where we lived, it took 30 minutes to go 7 miles on a not so crazy traffic heavy road because there were 90 sets of lights. In NJ.. the roads are so poorly designed every suburb has a backlog into their town. My friends from bergen County ditched NJ as soon as they got the first job outside NJ that paid over 40k a year. Other than NJ's poor quality of life, you literally could not escape the 8 hour rush hour traffic lol... Once you leave the immediate vicinity of Boston there really is no traffic? Its bad in Boston, but its also a very urban dense built city lol. Traffic is top 10 worst, but what do you expect?
Its all what you make of it. But one thing my family has learned, the grass isn't greener on the other side
Sussex county NJ is really a mixture. It is not as affluent as Morris, Hunterdon or Somerset, which IMO are the nicest counties in the state. Parts of Sussex got overdeveloped, are lower income, and just not very nice. Parts of Sussex are beautiful.
As far as driving, just got back from Florida, nice smooth roads but in the winter there's tons of traffic. YOu can wait 5 min. at every light. I lived in Southern Calif. familiar with the heavy traffic there, although again the area I lived had roads that were 3 lanes each direction with left and right turn lanes (something you rarely see in MA). I was driving in Worcester a couple weeks ago where at one intersection approx 2 cars could get through to make a left turn before the light would turn red. No green arrow, no left turn lanes.
When I was down in NC, you could go 5 miles in 7 or 8 min, in Metrowest that will take you 15-20 min because your travel speed will be 20-25 mph. Roads are narrow, drivers are slow here.
Eastern NJ and Bergen county have bad traffic, I lived in Hunterdon County which is still very rural. Most places there is no traffic period. I am sure Western Mass is similar, although NJ drivers don't go 5 mph below the speed limits.
It's high taxes if you're paying property tax on that house inside I-495. My zip code in economically downtrodden West Portugal has much lower prices and the oceanfront vacation homes and commercial property in Mall Hell make for a $10/thousand mill rate. If you make real money, the 5% flat income tax is a bargain. There are lots of southern red states with a much bigger income tax burden if you're into 6 figures. Georgia is 5.75% with a stiff sales tax once you add in county and town sales tax. South Carolina is 7% on income over $15k. North Carolina is a flat 5.25%. Massachusetts is middle of the pack nationally for tax burden unless you own that expensive metro Boston house.
My town has a bit of traffic crossing US 6 at commute hours and Mall Hell/state university traffic is always painful. Other than the Cape on summer weekends, traffic outside of I-495 isn't a big deal. The southern cities are choking on traffic, too and nobody has commuter rail and subway as an alternative.
I'm kind of laughing at the rant about polite drivers getting in your way. Imagine the enraging behavior of the car in front of you actually stopping for a pedestrian or letting someone out of a parking spot. In rural parts of the country, that's how everyone drives.
Hopkinton. I pay $9000 in property tax on a townhome. In North Carolina my tax on a 4 bedroom house would be under $3000.
Drivers here randomly stop to let cars out of sidestreets and parking lots. I am not talking about pedestrians. In many cases it is dangerous. Drivers aren't traffic cops, it's up to me to decide when it's safe to pull out of a parking lot. At the same time, I frequently see people who just randomly pull out in front of you without even looking.
Hopkinton. I pay $9000 in property tax on a townhome. In North Carolina my tax on a 4 bedroom house would be under $3000.
Drivers here randomly stop to let cars out of sidestreets and parking lots. I am not talking about pedestrians. In many cases it is dangerous. Drivers aren't traffic cops, it's up to me to decide when it's safe to pull out of a parking lot. At the same time, I frequently see people who just randomly pull out in front of you without even looking.
I think you lost your credibility when you said you prefer NJ over MA.
I didn’t know MA had a lot of people drinking and smoking in it. Not surprising I guess.
I will say that as a Boston resident my quality of life has gone down the past 10 years basically due to high cost of living and overcrowding. The traffic is insane, the MBTa is insane, going out to eat or to a museum or the movies or the mall has become sad. I find myself not wanting to bother doing things because of lines, traffic, wait times for everything. I might be more anxious around crowds than some and I think I’ve become more so since having kids. I have found the science museum and children’s museum to be a complete nightmare. Just overrun with people no matter when I go. And things like that are supposed to be a perk about living in the city. When my husband and i do date nights even though we live in the city we head to a restaurant in the suburbs. It also seems like politicians care more about people who aren’t here legally, people on welfare or have criminal pasts and of course the rich.
We are moving out of the city soon but really can’t move out of MA due to our jobs and our families are here. I’m just done with Boston. It isn’t fun anymore. It might be fun If you’re single and don’t mind trudging your way through a crowd.
So yeah I relate to the people who want to leave. My house is also completely overpriced but I can’t wait to sell it this spring.
I just sold and became a renter. I've positioned myself to take the first best job I find, far away from Boston. I cannot stand what it has become and it is poised to degrade even further.
I think you lost your credibility when you said you prefer NJ over MA.
Most people who diss NJ have never lived in NJ. They have not seen NJ. The part of NJ they are familiar with is the industrialized part along the NJ turnpike. Just like any other state, NJ has its good and bad parts.
If you spent some time in NJ you would find that it has amazing towns, which IMO are way way nicer than most MA towns. We had actually developments and subdivisions that were planned, not just a bunch of randomly built homes along winding narrow roads, roads with no shoulders or sidewalks. I have yet to see any neighborhood in Metrowest that comes close to what I had in NJ.
The housing stock here for the most part is crap. Old homes on undesirable lots, many don't even have a garage!
How many highways does MA have running through it?? In Metrowest you have the pike or 495. That's it. If you need to go anywhere else, you are stuck on slow local roads going 25 mph, behind someone who drives slower than your grandmother.
MA is in the top 20 in tax burden, and it is #6 in individual tax burden. Compare that to NH, which is 46th in tax burden...
And don't ignore all the hidden taxes in MA, like the excise tax on your car. Buying a new car here? You will pay $25 per $1000 in value, so that new $30,000 Honda will cost you $750 the first year of ownership. It will drop to 80% of that the second year, but add it all up and over the first five years you will pay thousands of dollars in excise tax for the privilege of having a car here..and what do you get in return for your money? Bad roads and dense traffic. I haven't seen a single road improvement (I.e. widening, adding lanes, left turn lanes etc) in 5 years.
Then there is the cost of contractors in MA. Everything here is close to double what you will pay in NH, PA or other states. The quotes I got for an electrician, plumber were all more than double anywhere else I've lived. Need yardwork? That's double also. Everything is extremely expensive here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
It's high taxes if you're paying property tax on that house inside I-495. My zip code in economically downtrodden West Portugal has much lower prices and the oceanfront vacation homes and commercial property in Mall Hell make for a $10/thousand mill rate. If you make real money, the 5% flat income tax is a bargain. There are lots of southern red states with a much bigger income tax burden if you're into 6 figures. Georgia is 5.75% with a stiff sales tax once you add in county and town sales tax. South Carolina is 7% on income over $15k. North Carolina is a flat 5.25%. Massachusetts is middle of the pack nationally for tax burden unless you own that expensive metro Boston house.
My town has a bit of traffic crossing US 6 at commute hours and Mall Hell/state university traffic is always painful. Other than the Cape on summer weekends, traffic outside of I-495 isn't a big deal. The southern cities are choking on traffic, too and nobody has commuter rail and subway as an alternative.
I'm kind of laughing at the rant about polite drivers getting in your way. Imagine the enraging behavior of the car in front of you actually stopping for a pedestrian or letting someone out of a parking spot. In rural parts of the country, that's how everyone drives.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,737,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicdoug
Most people who diss NJ have never lived in NJ. They have not seen NJ. The part of NJ they are familiar with is the industrialized part along the NJ turnpike. Just like any other state, NJ has its good and bad parts.
If you spent some time in NJ you would find that it has amazing towns, which IMO are way way nicer than most MA towns. We had actually developments and subdivisions that were planned, not just a bunch of randomly built homes along winding narrow roads, roads with no shoulders or sidewalks. I have yet to see any neighborhood in Metrowest that comes close to what I had in NJ.
The housing stock here for the most part is crap. Old homes on undesirable lots, many don't even have a garage!
How many highways does MA have running through it?? In Metrowest you have the pike or 495. That's it. If you need to go anywhere else, you are stuck on slow local roads going 25 mph, behind someone who drives slower than your grandmother.
That's a huge negative to me. Had lots of those in Wisconsin on farmland being converted. Horrid things. Nothjng I would ever want to live in or even near.
More highways is also a huge negative.
That said, I definitely love parts of NJ, esp the pine barrens region.
Most people who diss NJ have never lived in NJ. They have not seen NJ. The part of NJ they are familiar with is the industrialized part along the NJ turnpike. Just like any other state, NJ has its good and bad parts.
If you spent some time in NJ you would find that it has amazing towns, which IMO are way way nicer than most MA towns. We had actually developments and subdivisions that were planned, not just a bunch of randomly built homes along winding narrow roads, roads with no shoulders or sidewalks. I have yet to see any neighborhood in Metrowest that comes close to what I had in NJ.
The housing stock here for the most part is crap. Old homes on undesirable lots, many don't even have a garage!
How many highways does MA have running through it?? In Metrowest you have the pike or 495. That's it. If you need to go anywhere else, you are stuck on slow local roads going 25 mph, behind someone who drives slower than your grandmother.
Well, I grew up in NJ (Bergen County) and couldn't get out of there fast enough. I much prefer New England.
Most people who diss NJ have never lived in NJ. They have not seen NJ. The part of NJ they are familiar with is the industrialized part along the NJ turnpike. Just like any other state, NJ has its good and bad parts.
If you spent some time in NJ you would find that it has amazing towns, which IMO are way way nicer than most MA towns. We had actually developments and subdivisions that were planned, not just a bunch of randomly built homes along winding narrow roads, roads with no shoulders or sidewalks. I have yet to see any neighborhood in Metrowest that comes close to what I had in NJ.
The housing stock here for the most part is crap. Old homes on undesirable lots, many don't even have a garage!
How many highways does MA have running through it?? In Metrowest you have the pike or 495. That's it. If you need to go anywhere else, you are stuck on slow local roads going 25 mph, behind someone who drives slower than your grandmother.
Just the same, leafy Hopkinton is not necessarily a poster child for MA. It is one of the top most expensive towns on 495, and likewise some of the highest taxes. Get around the state more you find plenty of more "neighborhood" like communities or pretty much any setup you want. But saying that, yes as a general rule New Englanders like their privacy and large wooded lots have been a common preference (and this particularly holds true in Boston's western suburbs). And yes NIMBYs fought off 290 being extended to 128, leaving the Pike as the sole east-west highway (outside of Rte. 2). It's a downfall for commuters in comparison to north or south of Boston where you do have several options. But they really do need to widen some of the roads around Hopkinton, traffic and activity around there has grown way out of proportion to the local infrastructure. People do drive too slow on the backroads of MA (highways less so), but at least they aren't dangerous as they are in NJ. Tailgating there is out of control, at least whenever I drive through anyway.
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NJ vs Mass?
