MCAS ratings:relevant in choosing school?

[wickedripeplum]

I don't have a problem with having a minimal standard, I just don't think the MCAS measures that.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by wickedripeplum

I don't have a problem with having a minimal standard, I just don't think the MCAS measures that.

That's fair...but what is your practical and workable solution for measuring a minimum standard? It's OK to disagree with the status quo, but you also need to have alternative solutions ready.

[DG001]

Originally Posted by neil0311

It's either the kids or the teachers (or both) that bear the responsibility for the failure.

And the parents!

I agree with most of what you are saying - I just wanted to add that most parents are so good at passing the buck - but I think parental involvement goes a long way...

[professorsenator]

Originally Posted by neil0311

That's fair...but what is your practical and workable solution for measuring a minimum standard?

As a professor, I have a practical and workable solution for measuring minimum standards in my courses. They're called "tests." I administer them, students take them, and I and/or my TA grade them.

If the students do not meet the minimum they get a grade of "F." That's "F" as in FAILURE. Students fail quite regularly. If they fail, they may retake the course or they may not and they do not get credit for the course. It's really as simple as that.

[willdufauve]

The main factor in student success is family income. Standardized testing, in a sense, measures family income. The town's with highest family income generally have highest MCAS, SAT scores. Town's with lowest family income have lowest test scores.

If you're evaluating a school system you also want to look at dropout rates, graduation rates, choice out rate, college attendance rate, per pupil $$$, turnover rates for teachers/administrators, extra-curricular programs, what's going on for charter schools locally and who goes there/why. MCAS ratings would be at the bottom of my list after the above.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by willdufauve

The main factor in student success is family income. Standardized testing, in a sense, measures family income. The town's with highest family income generally have highest MCAS, SAT scores. Town's with lowest family income have lowest test scores.

If you're evaluating a school system you also want to look at dropout rates, graduation rates, choice out rate, college attendance rate, per pupil $$$, turnover rates for teachers/administrators, extra-curricular programs, what's going on for charter schools locally and who goes there/why. MCAS ratings would be at the bottom of my list after the above.

No argument with what you've stated, but there still has to be a measurement of how those factors have affected the students' learning of the material. You listed a bunch of things that may contribute to good or poor education, but the MCAS is simply the mirror that you look into to reflect the end result. It is the messenger, not the cause.

[smarty]

Originally Posted by professorsenator

As a professor, I have a practical and workable solution for measuring minimum standards in my courses. They're called "tests." I administer them, students take them, and I and/or my TA grade them.

If the students do not meet the minimum they get a grade of "F." That's "F" as in FAILURE. Students fail quite regularly. If they fail, they may retake the course or they may not and they do not get credit for the course. It's really as simple as that.

On the surface, a test sound really good until you get 3-4 professors together and they all have different difficulties tests for the same course. Should we have a national college level graduation test where we use tests from college like MIT or Community college as standards and see how many will graduate?

Most teachers do not want to fail 90% of the kids as their teacher ranking drops really fast. So, they give them extra credits... give them points for doing homework.... give them points for class participation. I could never figure out how kids get 105 points in a 100 points test. or how a grade depends so much on other things... (But, I love it.. )

I also find many teachers like to take off points for wrong answers instead of earning points for correct answers in a test. It is much more difficult earning 90 points in a test than taking off only 10 points. I guess this is the magic of a pen.

Then the school administrator says... you need to have an average grade "C" or "B" with distribution for the class. With only a few points between grades, how on earth can you create a test that centered on that grade and have that kind of distribution?

My hats off to all the college professors! They're good... really good!