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Old 07-23-2020, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Camberville
13,332 posts, read 18,091,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridge781 View Post
Wanting schools to open in some form so my kids can be properly educated and not wanting to open a strangers bottle of Gatorade feel pretty different.

Right - there is literally no danger opening a bottle of Gatorade while maintaining distance and then immediately washing your hands with hand sanitizer. Evidence of spread from objects is minimal.



It is infinitely more dangerous to be in a classroom of 20+ students. Small, crowded spaces for long periods of time is literally the most dangerous thing you can do.



Thanks for clearing that up!
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:12 PM
 
2,674 posts, read 850,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover View Post
Weren't you the poster who was adamant that you and others should continue to work from home and absolutely not take public transport in any way?

I have no idea what schools should or can do. But find your varying stances rather odd.
Yes I was in favor of working from home because everyone knows it can be easily done. It seemed ridiculous to trek in via train with thousands of others being exposed when so many jobs can be done from home. My office has been remote since March and our financials are doing very well.

School is different. It’s the same group of students in a classroom at a time and preventative measures can be taken to make it work. And again school did close too!

I think people on this forum just like to disagree with me. Anything I say seems to be argued with.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:15 PM
 
688 posts, read 296,428 times
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Allegedly there is an outbreak in Chatham. If there's really going to be a second wave, the Cape would be the place for it to start. The Cape never got hit that bad.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:26 PM
 
Location: The Moon
1,373 posts, read 1,107,947 times
Reputation: 1601
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesmaybe View Post
Allegedly there is an outbreak in Chatham. If there's really going to be a second wave, the Cape would be the place for it to start. The Cape never got hit that bad.
I've been down here since March and I don't think the cape is uniquely vulnerable or of particular worry. The second the weather allowed for it the beaches became packed. I probably see 2 or 3 groups of people every time I go to the beach who are actually following mask rules. That is the number 1 place you see unrelated people in close proximity for hours at a time without masks, but no major uptick.

While not as crazy as a normal year there are tens of thousands more here than there were in March and they are coming from all over. Has been the case for months now, again no major uptick. The Chatham "outbreak" was amongst restaurant workers who were at a party together. That is a risk anywhere. Cuttyhunk is even having an issue right now.

Events like the Chatham one as it has been described to me are a reality everywhere for the foreseeable future. Young people in close proximity who are not taking precautions are statistically significant at this time all over the country.

Time will tell though, this thing seems to not be there until it is. And if it gets bad they will need to be shipping people off cape for care.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:45 PM
 
12,010 posts, read 13,138,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridge781 View Post
School is different. It’s the same group of students in a classroom at a time and preventative measures can be taken to make it work.
I don't see how it's different. It's still a group of strangers who's actions you don't control. What if one students parents are doctors and spent the evening working with Covid patients. What if one students parents think this is one big hoax and held a family reunion at their house one weekend with relatives flying in from a region in Florida with significant cases? WHat if one kid intermixes with other kids on the weekends wrestling and jumping in a trampoline and other close physical contact with others? You have no idea what they are doing outside of that classroom or what sort of exposure risk they are subjected to. How can you dismiss that so easily, and yet hesitate when an old lady ask you to open a Gatorade? If anything, kids are likely going to be partaking in the same activities. They bring in a cool toy, and pass it around. Some students may share snacks or drinks behind a teachers back. I wouldn't be surprised if kids somewhere traded masks in the middle of the day through all this.

It will be a challenge in itself getting younger kids to partake in some of the preventative measures aimed at keeping them safe. Adults in an office can comply with common sense precautions. There are capacity limitations, PPE, hand sanitizer, restrictions on lunch and which directions to walk down an aisle. Adults can follow these rules. Kids...are kids. Tell one they can't do this, and they will do it the minute you turn your back. I went into a store real quick with my 7 year old who wore his mask normally when we walked in. I looked back a few mins later, and he was wearing his mask over his eyes like a blindfold. Now multiply that by 20 students and throw them in a class for 6-7 hours. (even worse if it's a 90* sept day) They aren't going to abide by every preventative measure or rule like an adult in an office building would.
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Old 07-23-2020, 12:56 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
22,728 posts, read 21,780,562 times
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For schools, are they looking at what has happened in other countries? If so, I'd like to know the results.

I do know that my DIL in England sent her kids back to school. I think the schools technically were closed but she is an essential worker and, somehow, the schools made arrangements to take the kids. They must have had very small classes, but some kids were in school. For a while they had remote learning but when the schools opened up again (around May?) her kids went back.

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, we should take a look at other countries. Their schools often don't get out until July. Also, there must be summer school in some countries. How did they do? Did people get sick?

(I am for closing schools and just giving up on school for this coming year but if schools in other parts of the world have managed to stay open without damage, then I'd take a second thought.)
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:07 PM
 
12,010 posts, read 13,138,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
r but if schools in other parts of the world have managed to stay open without damage, then I'd take a second thought.
I think you also need to take into account how well the country did at managing their own outbreak. If the country did a great job and now daily cases for the entire country measure in the 100's, then the risk factor is extremely low and therefore opening schools does make sense.

However, the US is currently rising with more than 60K cases per day. I realize these numbers are regional, but they must be considered considering travel between regions has not been restricted. You'd have to look at a country with comparable rate of infection/hospitalization and other key metrics to make a correlation, and I don't believe there are any European countries that match up to the current metrics here in the US. Florida currently has more daily cases than several European countries combined do.

I think the hesitation with MA schools here is that our numbers look great right now, and on par with much of what Europe has done, but there is uncertainty as to what will happen in the future given the regional outbreaks and the widespread mentality here in the US that this is overblown.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:38 PM
 
2,674 posts, read 850,820 times
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If it was so easy to just close schools for the year then why hasn’t it been done yet ?

August is next week

And I’m sorry but i think people have a great chance of getting sick if they have to take the train to work. Coming in close, packed contact with so many people. It’s basically why I thought offices needed to close since so many depend on the train. And like it or not most office jobs can be done at home/remote. I can see why they closed schools because of so much unknown.

If they close schools this whole next year why would it be safe for them to open in the fall of 2021? What if there still isn’t a vaccine by then ? We could push this out for years.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:51 PM
 
688 posts, read 296,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridge781 View Post
If it was so easy to just close schools for the year then why hasn’t it been done yet ?

August is next week
Might be a question of constitutionality about the obligation to have public schools. I mean if it was that easy to just shutdown the schools, furlough the teachers and use the money saved to hire day care workers, they would have done that by now.
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Old 07-23-2020, 01:56 PM
 
Location: stuck in the woods with bears and moose
22,728 posts, read 21,780,562 times
Reputation: 40639
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonMike7 View Post
I think you also need to take into account how well the country did at managing their own outbreak. If the country did a great job and now daily cases for the entire country measure in the 100's, then the risk factor is extremely low and therefore opening schools does make sense.

However, the US is currently rising with more than 60K cases per day. I realize these numbers are regional, but they must be considered considering travel between regions has not been restricted. You'd have to look at a country with comparable rate of infection/hospitalization and other key metrics to make a correlation, and I don't believe there are any European countries that match up to the current metrics here in the US. Florida currently has more daily cases than several European countries combined do.

I think the hesitation with MA schools here is that our numbers look great right now, and on par with much of what Europe has done, but there is uncertainty as to what will happen in the future given the regional outbreaks and the widespread mentality here in the US that this is overblown.
I looked around for some information and, as usual with this disease, no one knows. This article is interesting. In countries that reopened the schools, it was mostly with some bizarre arrangements, such as each kid being confined to a chalk square at recess, kids not allowed to associate with anyone outside of their group of six, eight year olds told not to speak to their friends, middle schoolers reminded to steer clear of their classmates.

Together, they suggest a combination of keeping student groups small and requiring masks and some social distancing helps keep schools and communities safe, and that younger children rarely spread the virus to one another or bring it home. But opening safely, experts agree, isn’t just about the adjustments a school makes. It’s also about how much virus is circulating in the community, which affects the likelihood that students and staff will bring COVID-19 into their classrooms.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...pite-outbreaks

Mostly, it seems, kids under age 12 aren't much of a problem when it comes to spreading, however there were a few exceptions. And, as you say, it largely depends upon how widespread the virus is in that country (or state or community.) With a country the size of the US, I would think it's impossible to issue a blanket statement that all schools should be open and then assume that it would be safe.

It would be better to take it state by state and confine school openings to under the age of middle school.
Fortunately, that's the age group that needs in person teaching and socialization anyway, so there's another reason for opening school to the younger age group. Also, use younger teachers who are less likely to get very sick. Set up some rules to minimize spreading the virus. And--definitely have a backup plan (such as?) for schools that have to close down. Probably use a lot of testing too, so that they can tell when it's safe to go back.

Sounds like the danger pertains mostly to high schools and that they should be taught remotely or at least meet only once a week and in small groups. That could be done within the confines of one building with room for kids to spread out as long as they're not there all at the same time.
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