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Old 05-22-2020, 07:41 AM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,744,400 times
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Originally Posted by trevor0101 View Post
Something to keep in mind is that Facebook, and other similar companies may permit increasing amounts of WFH for a period of time. However, if employees wish to leave their general areas it results in a significant pay reduction. So, while it sounds like a good idea to leave SFBay, and be a rich guy in your hometown of Ann Arbor, that's just not going to happen. That $250k they are paying you in SFBay is probably only going to be $155k in Ann Arbor, and even less if you want to go to a place like Canada. That doesn't take into account the likely severe career cost of no longer rubbing elbows with the higher ups, getting invited to important onsite meetings, and the potential lost promotions.

There is undoubtedly a sheen on the suburbs now, in-so-far as you can probably keep your metro rate of pay, and get a nicer house where you're not on top of each other, and maybe even have the ability to grill out on a deck. Being a suburbanite has a weird reputation to many folks inside of the 128, but I can tell you that things aren't so bad in the "gold plated" suburbs of Boston.
Not all companies pay more for higher-cost areas. When I was in retail long ago to pay schedules leaked out and it showed that he paid more in the basis of competition not cost of living. The levels were 1 through 5 with about a at least a five to 10% difference between each one. The vast majority of stores or twos threes. Fours are rare and fives are very rare. Ones are in very remote areas. The fives would be Manhattan (Staten Island is a 3) and San Francisco and New Orleans. New Orleans stood out because after Katrina they just couldn't find the people so they kept throwing money.

In many respects with the tech industry the only way to really move up is to move out. I'll when you consider all of the amounts of m&a activity that have existed over the past 20 years it's really no assurance that you're going to be able to move up. The tech industry works on Creative destruction which means that people learn from an employer and then they move on. Look up the term PayPal Mafia because it actually shows how many connections went back to this group. Now some Industries might only have a few major companies in it like medical coding is either meditech or Epic. The term career is almost an antiquated 20th century term because it lacks Innovation and it implies as if it's always going to be in One Direction. As long as you have portability of benefits and Investments people will continue to go from job to job.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,046 posts, read 12,326,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yesmaybe View Post
Just the opposite, especially here. It's just that where the Big Tech Companies are in the Bay Area is suburban.
But even in Boston, they like the suburbanized Kendall square for all their big open space offices. The workers live nearby to avoid soul crushing commutes. I just don't think tech workers in general really care about being in a city. Just anecdotal though.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:15 AM
 
875 posts, read 655,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trevor0101 View Post
I think the housing market is weird right now. There are a ton of folks that have excellent job security in Boston, and decent savings, and decent equity. Those people are competing for desirable properties, of which there are fewer due to the pandemic. The economics are simple, and there is a pretty large part of Boston's population that is less financially affected by the pandemic than most.
Yes, this reflects what I have seen, at least for Belmont, the market I am most familiar with.

Every listing I see seems to go 'pending' almost immediately. And sales price seem to be at or above list for properties that went under agreement since the start of COVID.

Close to historically low rates and further reduced inventory are fueling this
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Camberville
15,790 posts, read 21,302,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
But even in Boston, they like the suburbanized Kendall square for all their big open space offices. The workers live nearby to avoid soul crushing commutes. I just don't think tech workers in general really care about being in a city. Just anecdotal though.

I have lots of tech worker friends who work remotely, sometimes for companies not even in the Boston area, who choose to live in Cambridge or Somerville because they want to be in the city. I don't think you're going to get a ton of interest from single people or childless couples to move out into the burbs or country if they were previously more interested in living in the city.



Considering this is Millennials' second major recession and many Zoomers will be graduating into it, even less young people will find it viable to make the traditional get married - have kids - move to the suburbs trajectory.



Smaller cities may be more attractive in the near-term, though.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:26 AM
 
880 posts, read 810,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I don't think you're going to get a ton of interest from single people or childless couples to move out into the burbs or country if they were previously more interested in living in the city.
.
I dunno... living in a closed box for 3 months makes you start to appreciate things like backyard, gardening, space from neighbors and generally more living space

I see huge demand for the inner suburbs (30 min drive into the city on weekends)
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:27 AM
 
24,510 posts, read 17,995,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
But even in Boston, they like the suburbanized Kendall square for all their big open space offices. The workers live nearby to avoid soul crushing commutes. I just don't think tech workers in general really care about being in a city. Just anecdotal though.

We've covered this ground before but my first metro Boston tech job was in October 1982. I spent my whole career in the 'burbs. I had a brief stint at BBN Labs across the tracks south of Alewife and another stint in Newton Corner north of the Pike at the Charles River and the Watertown line. Neither of those was "urban".
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Camberville
15,790 posts, read 21,302,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugelrex View Post
I dunno... living in a closed box for 3 months makes you start to appreciate things like backyard, gardening, space from neighbors and generally more living space

I see huge demand for the inner suburbs (30 min drive into the city on weekends)

With the prices in the suburbs, and the expected increase in the suburbs, which ends up being better - a box in Somerville or a box in Marlborough/Acton/Framingham? The cost of buying a house with a yard is going to get much higher, still pricing out the average Millennial - even those who have secure jobs. Even here in Marlborough, you can't buy a small house for less than $350K (and that's a steal) - I expect that to only go up now.



As a childless young adult who is currently alone in a box in Marlborough paying 3 times my parents' mortgage, I'd take Somerville.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:08 AM
 
875 posts, read 655,253 times
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For what its worth, our circle of friends who are living in Back Bay and South End are not moving. Some have kids and some are single.

They love where they live and that hasn't changed.

This is not the end of the world and it too will pass.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:16 AM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,744,400 times
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^^^ that's a kinda what I'm saying.

It's a bit of a weird paradox. You have high rents in Boston but at the same point suburbs aren't exactly that much cheaper in the short term especially with one person. Generally I would argue that the majority of home sales in the 128 belt and to a lesser point 495 are to couples (factor out investment LLC's and other firms).

Usually the argument for the suburbs is better school systems and that of course is a factor with having kids and property values. Well if students don't go back in the fall I think eventually this will just be the new norm. Eventually some might question why we'd need multiple online schools and if that merges then we end up with zero marginal costs. DESE knows the price per student per district. But that was factoring in the old facilities demands of the buildings in that community. If it's online that means the price goes down significantly. Yes there's upfront costs if you want more professional videos but companies like Coursera have been doing that for years.

When people start talking about productivity and efficiency frankly we have dramatically oversold the idea that workplaces are these factory like nose to the grindstone environments. Even pre covid many people can get everything done in probably a third to a quarter of the time they are actually in their offices.
https://ourcommunitynow.com/lifestyl...his-many-hours

Here's a huge hit anywhere in the state but certainly more in the berkshires 450.
https://www.berkshireeagle.com/stori...il-2021,605205

I get that yoga is big and everything but maybe its me but I can't see the whole "holistic feel good mentality" requiring that amount of people. I might get flamed for saying this but in any recession or economic downturn people tend to cut back on this that are more wants to rely more on needs. Obviously people will get gas, groceries etc but direct services to people that can't be done online (not trade related) are going to be hurting. I've heard ads for Alexa psychologist skills and that was precovid. Smart speakers and skills I think might be the next big thing. Zoom meetings are fine but not everyone wants to see someone when they talk. Radio still exists and Joe Rogan just made a huge deal on Spotify. AT&T's old slogan was "Reach out and touch someone". I think that might ring true again.
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Old 05-22-2020, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Camberville
15,790 posts, read 21,302,505 times
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There's no way that online school is going to become the norm. Maybe some families are finding that it works for their students (whether K-12 or college), but school is about much more than pure education. Parents of younger kids would have to figure out how to balance work (either out of the home or remotely) while enriching their child's social and experiential opportunities that would otherwise happen at school.
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