Tell me about Pittsfield! (Boston, Worcester: sale, layoffs, schools)

[G1..]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Tanglewood was canceled this year along with Jacob's Pillow. Tourism has to wait. Short term rentals might still be banned.

Rural America has died out for 50 years now.

I have to see more than one season before I declare it dead,the Berkshires have been doing decent for the last few years so you that declare it dead ,you dead wrong. 50 years????

[mdovell]

Dead wrong. Rural America as in rural areas in all of the US have been in a 50 year decline.

Why?

First of all on a logic basis rural areas try to restrict development. They don't plan for growth as ultimately it means moving wider (suburbs) or taller (cities). Outside of a university campus you don't see buildings that are that tall. Look at UMass Amherst. Look at the Storrs Center for the CT equivalency...same thing.

So if you don't grow in population the population then gradually gets older. This increases demands for health care and transit. This is another reason why proximity to major cities with healthcare can be a factor in retiring.

Second is businesses generally don't want to go to places that aren't growing. Yes "Riches are in the niches" I get that but it doesn't make up for the face that if you don't comp, that is to say make more than last year (ie. any growth) it's hard to justify operations. Yes some businesses operate at an initial loss but many small businesses can't forecast longer than a few seasons due to the weather and general seasonality. So a towns has what..one coffee shop? One supermarket?

Third is media depiction is frankly bad. The baby boomers grew up with tv shows that showed much of rural life...until the early 70s. This was a REAL thing in the tv industry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_purge
Let's not forget The Simple Life and general stereotypes that currently exist. That rural Americans are generally uneducated, racist, predominately white and poor i.e the term "deplorables" and no I didn't vote for her either. To note the Berkshire Record closed down and the Berkshire Eagle might not have enough PPP funds to last to July. Less people means less ads and less revenue.

Fourth is that it is much harder to develop a rural area then to redevelop a suburban or urban area. Water lines, sewer lines, electrical, natural gas, broadband service, cell coverage etc. Much of this is population driven based on per capita, not wealth. Bill Gates might have 10,000 times the amount of money the average american has (I'm just making an argument) but he doesn't use 10,000 times the electricity or water.

Fifth is the selling points have changed. It's a hard argument for privacy in a era of social media. "Let me be" doesn't make sense if someone is posting about what they are doing to the general public every day.

I get it some like to go outside and go camping or biking etc. But for the most part that's a day trip and that might not put that much money into the community. Here's a test. If a place really is rural ask the town who is the town forester or aborist. Now if they say they don't have one then that means there's really no maintenance to the "woods". You have to maintain forests and parks. If there's an evasive plant disease and it wipes out an area (ie. Worcester long horn beetle https://www.telegram.com/news/201808...with-diversity)

I know people can try to counter arguments by saying it's an experience. I get that as well but many places are competing for experiences. Maybe it's a man made rock climbing center or ax throwing. I know suburban areas that have horseback riding lessons, cities with urban gardens and chickens. One place that really impressed me is 180 park. https://www.mill180park.com

Communities can age out. It gets to the point where businesses don't want to really come in. For example on the cape the largest growing industry is life insurance and estate planning.

Generally speaking good places have people that want to be there driving up prices and population. When you see a steady decline over decades of an area it goes the other way. Sure sometimes people cling to areas and I get that and it can attract retirees based on the fact that CT taxes public pensions. As the schools close, shops close fewer births, less immigration etc.

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/r...e6d18c84f.html

"The report by Forward Analytics, the research arm of the Wisconsin Counties Association, found natural decline — when there are more deaths than births — accounted for more than half the loss in the 31 rural counties where population declined between 2010 and 2018.

Nationwide, 92% of rural population decline was a result of net migration — more people moving out of rural counties than moving in."

So if the birth rate somehow stabilizes they'll still leave.

[Bert_from_back_East]

If nothing else, Pittsfield has one of the lowest-common-denominator local accents in the state of Massachusetts. For the record, the accent of Pittsfield is fully rhotic and features the "Mary-marry-merry" merger. Also, native English speakers from western Massachusetts are subject to the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, so vowel sounds in Pittsfield/Berkshire County are more similar to those heard in Michigan and Wisconsin than eastern Massachusetts.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East

If nothing else, Pittsfield has one of the lowest-common-denominator local accents in the state of Massachusetts. For the record, the accent of Pittsfield is fully rhotic and features the "Mary-marry-merry" merger. Also, native English speakers from western Massachusetts are subject to the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, so vowel sounds in Pittsfield/Berkshire County are more similar to those heard in Michigan and Wisconsin than eastern Massachusetts.

I don't know whether you mean western MA or the Berkshires but I love talking about accents! Being from Wmass (Northampton/Springfield area) when I take those accent tests on FB I always come out with Standard American Accent and it will go on to say that it's the same as Ohio and NY state. I would say that Pittsfield is probably the same. The few times I've even been out to Pittsfield I didn't notice that they spoke any differently than we in WMass do.

Hartford Country, just to the south but in CT speaks exactly the same way. We always used to say that it was east of the river vs west of the river. East of the Connecticut River is where they tend to start dropping the R and talking "funny" You really notice it when you get near Woooohstah.

For the record, I wouldn't even call Pittsfield "rural." It's post industrial like a mini Haverhill or tiny version of any old run down industrial town. Of course my idea of "rural" would mean farms and a Vermont type landscape, not broken down mills and falling apart houses. I think we would all agree that Pittsfield is remote though, out of the way, off the beaten path, and definitely not a place to be stuck in the winter.

[Bert_from_back_East]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I don't know whether you mean western MA or the Berkshires but I love talking about accents! Being from Wmass (Northampton/Springfield area) when I take those accent tests on FB I always come out with Standard American Accent and it will go on to say that it's the same as Ohio and NY state. I would say that Pittsfield is probably the same. The few times I've even been out to Pittsfield I didn't notice that they spoke any differently than we in WMass do.

Hartford Country, just to the south but in CT speaks exactly the same way. We always used to say that it was east of the river vs west of the river. East of the Connecticut River is where they tend to start dropping the R and talking "funny" You really notice it when you get near Woooohstah.

For the record, I wouldn't even call Pittsfield "rural." It's post industrial like a mini Haverhill or tiny version of any old run down industrial town. Of course my idea of "rural" would mean farms and a Vermont type landscape, not broken down mills and falling apart houses. I think we would all agree that Pittsfield is remote though, out of the way, off the beaten path, and definitely not a place to be stuck in the winter.

Between 1965 and 1970, linguistic researchers from the University of Wisconsin at Madison collected thousands of audio samples from speakers across the country, most of whom were over the age of 60, and published their fieldwork in the Dictionary of American Regional English. The audio samples may be accessed by visiting the following hyperlink in your web browser: https://search.library.wisc.edu/sear...ordings%5D=yes. To search for audio samples from a specific city/town or county, you may enter a keyword in the search bar or select the city or county name from the drop-down list under the "Places" tab.

Interestingly enough, some of the interviewed subjects from towns located west of the Connecticut River displayed some degree of non-rhoticity, while others did not. For example, it is clear that the gentleman from Dalton, MA spoke with 100% rhoticity. However, one man from Charlemont, MA and another man from Salisbury, CT spoke with what sounded like a high degree of non-rhoticity.

Did your grandparents originate in towns located west of the Connecticut? If so, which towns were they from, and did they speak with any non-rhoticity?

[G1..]

Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East

Between 1965 and 1970, linguistic researchers from the University of Wisconsin at Madison collected thousands of audio samples from speakers across the country, most of whom were over the age of 60, and published their fieldwork in the Dictionary of American Regional English. The audio samples may be accessed by visiting the following hyperlink in your web browser: https://search.library.wisc.edu/sear...ordings%5D=yes. To search for audio samples from a specific city/town or county, you may enter a keyword in the search bar or select the city or county name from the drop-down list under the "Places" tab.

Interestingly enough, some of the interviewed subjects from towns located west of the Connecticut River displayed some degree of non-rhoticity, while others did not. For example, it is clear that the gentleman from Dalton, MA spoke with 100% rhoticity. However, one man from Charlemont, MA and another man from Salisbury, CT spoke with what sounded like a high degree of non-rhoticity.

Did your grandparents originate in towns located west of the Connecticut? If so, which towns were they from, and did they speak with any non-rhoticity?

Did they ever mention the 7th District in St, Mary's county of Maryland ?

[G1..]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Dead wrong. Rural America as in rural areas in all of the US have been in a 50 year decline.

After all your hot air you still never explained your "over fifty years" remark? In 1970 Pittsfield was thriving ,I was there so for you to spout BS is comical.

[tovarisch]

I was in Pittsfield yesterday. No one killed me. Nice views at the lakes and in some of the western parts of the city. Considering COVID and all, North St. (which is the main street) looked OK. Try not to submit to alarmism.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by G1..

After all your hot air you still never explained your "over fifty years" remark? In 1970 Pittsfield was thriving ,I was there so for you to spout BS is comical.

“How ya gonna keep ‘em down on the farm no more (after they’ve seen Paree)” was a WW I song. Rural to urban migration has been a thing for a century. The joke in Vermont is that their biggest export is the top-10% of every High School graduating class. People move to areas of economic opportunities. That has been pretty fundamental in American history since Colonial Jamestown and the Mayflower.

There is some migration in the other direction with affluent white collar people who either telecommute, retire, or career change to escape the rat race but it’s small relative to the migration in the other direction other than a small number of very desirable towns.

[FCMA]

Keep in mind that Pittsfield is larger in population than Burlington VT, so it’s not necessarily rural except its surroundings, and most of us have the MA goggles on so everywhere is the sticks except Baaahston.