Does voting matter in MA? (Boston, Worcester: section 8, sales, apartment)

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Yea no I don’t think people are fleeing diversity because there plenty places to live with zero diversity in MA- but I would still call it white flight. Just because that’s basically what it is and there’s no other concise term for it.

The problem is the term 'white flight' implies very specific motivations relating to the happenings of the late '60s through early '90s, even though the trend started well before that due to Boomers aging into child bearing and home ownership ... a completely inert demographic shift. It triggers images of the '68 MLK riots, the Busing Crisis, the '90's drug/gang 'wars', etc.

Maybe "white dispersion" is a better term as I do not think whites are "fleeing" cities with record low crime numbers and robust job markets. The only thing they may be fleeing is high COL, but that could very well be the only motivating factor. Current 'white flight' is, IMO, very similar to '50s era 'white flight' ... Millenials are leaving high COL/high density cities to start families and own homes.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

The problem is the term 'white flight' implies very specific motivations relating to the happenings of the late '60s through early '90s, even though the trend started well before that due to Boomers aging into child bearing and home ownership ... a completely inert demographic shift. It triggers images of the '68 MLK riots, the Busing Crisis, the '90's drug/gang 'wars', etc.

Maybe "white dispersion" is a better term as I do not think whites are "fleeing" cities with record low crime numbers and robust job markets. The only thing they may be fleeing is high COL, but that could very well be the only motivating factor. Current 'white flight' is, IMO, very similar to '50s era 'white flight' ... Millenials are leaving high COL/high density cities to start families and own homes.

Sure white dispersion that’s fitting. Although white numbers are trending downward at a fast rate in pretty much every major MA city outside of 128. There are definitely some places seeing classic white flight -Brockton Springfield Lawrence New Bedford Lowell Worcester. Those cities in particularly don’t have high RE values and have been seeing huge drops in their white population since 2000.

In 2000 Worcester was 70% white, Lowell and Brockton were both 60%+ white, New Bedford was like 75% white. Springfield was nearly 50% white.

The list goes on. So classic white flight is occurring in some areas. Harder to tell with some other places like Everett and Randolph. Which have seen demographic shifts just as big if not bigger than larger cities but are reasonably close to Boston and fairly desirable. But they also have stigma attached to them too.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by lrfox

I realize I'm only one voter, but the modern GOP platform simply doesn't resonate for the reasons you mention. The narratives about crime, unrest, cities, law and order/police, etc. just don't stick because they don't reflect the reality of my life (in a "democrat run city"). At all. It's the least relatable platform in my memory. I think this applies to a lot of left-leaning moderates in MA. I think the vast majority of voters in MA are pretty firmly entrenched (on both sides) at this point. I think this is true for most of the country considering how far apart the sides are.

That's because those narratives don't fit the facts.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Sure white dispersion that’s fitting. Although white numbers are trending downward at a fast rate in pretty much every major MA city outside of 128. There are definitely some places seeing classic white flight -Brockton Springfield Lawrence New Bedford Lowell Worcester. Those cities in particularly don’t have high RE values and have been seeing huge drops in their white population since 2000.

In 2000 Worcester was 70% white, Lowell and Brockton were both 60%+ white, New Bedford was like 75% white. Springfield was nearly 50% white.

The list goes on. So classic white flight is occurring in some areas. Harder to tell with some other places like Everett and Randolph. Which have seen demographic shifts just as big if not bigger than larger cities but are reasonably close to Boston and fairly desirable. But they also have stigma attached to them too.

I don't know if you can say that classic white-flight is what happened in all these cities just based on those percentages. I feel you need more that to draw that conclusion.

Just focusing on Worcester between 2000 and 2010 Worcester white population decreased 7,000 people (-5%) while the black population increased 9,000 people (77%). In real numbers the black population increased more than the white population left. This is pretty big. To me more than what is driving the whites out (schools, deaths, retirement I imagine) is interesting what is driving the blacks in.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Lampert

I don't know if you can say that classic white-flight is what happened in all these cities just based on those percentages. I feel you need more that to draw that conclusion.

Just focusing on Worcester between 2000 and 2010 Worcester white population decreased 7,000 people (-5%) while the black population increased 9,000 people (77%). In real numbers the black population increased more than the white population left. This is pretty big. To me more than what is driving the whites out (schools, deaths, retirement I imagine) is interesting what is driving the blacks in.

I mean 70% to 53% in 2018 without a Really significant population bump indicates flight to me.

Brockton 61% white to 31% white in 18 years?

New Bedford 75% white to 56% white?

Springfield 48% white to 28% white?

These are major major shifts...The outpace not only national averages -but state trends as well

Lowell 62% to 48% is a bit more natural.

Don’t even get me started in Randolph and Everett...

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Sure white dispersion that’s fitting. Although white numbers are trending downward at a fast rate in pretty much every major MA city outside of 128. There are definitely some places seeing classic white flight -Brockton Springfield Lawrence New Bedford Lowell Worcester. Those cities in particularly don’t have high RE values and have been seeing huge drops in their white population since 2000.

In 2000 Worcester was 70% white, Lowell and Brockton were both 60%+ white, New Bedford was like 75% white. Springfield was nearly 50% white.

The list goes on. So classic white flight is occurring in some areas. Harder to tell with some other places like Everett and Randolph. Which have seen demographic shifts just as big if not bigger than larger cities but are reasonably close to Boston and fairly desirable. But they also have stigma attached to them too.

New Bedford was only 75% white because the US census doesn’t count Portuguese as Hispanic. It’s still almost 40% Portuguese with most of that from the Azores. The demographic shift is middle class Portuguese moving to the suburbs and replaced with Hispanic. Spanish wasn’t a common language 40 years ago.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

New Bedford was only 75% white because the US census doesn’t count Portuguese as Hispanic. It’s still almost 40% Portuguese with most of that from the Azores.

Yea but Portuguese isn’t Hispanic/Latino. And even still it’s not like that's changed.

[BostonBornMassMade]

New Bedford 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...ew-bedford-ma/
New Bedford 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-19% Overall White share


Springfield 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...pringfield-ma/
Springfield 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-21%

Lawrence 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...0-lawrence-ma/
Lawrence 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-20%

Worcester 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...-worcester-ma/
Worcester 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-18%

Lowell 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...000-lowell-ma/
Lowell 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-14%

Brockton 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...0-brockton-ma/
Brockton 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-30%

Everett 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...90-everett-ma/
Everett 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-27%

Randolph 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...0-randolph-ma/
Randolph 2000: Randolph, MA Population - Census 2010 and 2000 Interactive Map, Demographics, Statistics, Quick Facts - CensusViewer
-28%

The average state wide decline of the white share of the population was -11.8%, 82.5% to 70.7%

To me the only one I don’t see at least some white flight in is Lowell because it’s had growth of 10k residents to and the rate of change has been slower.

[Lampert]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

New Bedford 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...ew-bedford-ma/
New Bedford 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-19% Overall White share


Springfield 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...pringfield-ma/
Springfield 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-21%

Lawrence 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...0-lawrence-ma/
Lawrence 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-20%

Worcester 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...-worcester-ma/
Worcester 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-18%

Lowell 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...000-lowell-ma/
Lowell 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-14%

Brockton 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...0-brockton-ma/
Brockton 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-30%

Everett 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...90-everett-ma/
Everett 2000: Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
-27%

Randolph 2018: http://censusreporter.org/profiles/1...0-randolph-ma/
Randolph 2000: Randolph, MA Population - Census 2010 and 2000 Interactive Map, Demographics, Statistics, Quick Facts - CensusViewer
-28%

The average state wide decline of the white share of the population was -11.8%, 82.5% to 70.7%

To me the only one I don’t see at least some white flight in is Lowell because it’s had growth of 10k residents to and the rate of change has been slower.

It's definitely possible. Those are big changes. Could still be mostly economic pressure though. Although is more likely to be schools.

[Williepaws]

If you are voting for President then NO it doesnt matter if you vote or not. State elections, it might matter. Local elections, matters very much.

People are leaving Ma because they are tired of the high tax rate which is only going to get worse. Doesnt have anything to do with “white flight” but it has alot to do with money. And others I know who have bought property in neighboring states are doing so due to the draconian measures imposed by state govt over covid restrictions. They don’t want to go thru some of this again. And the real estate mkt is very hot. Take your money and get out.