Montana to Exburbs of MA (Boston, Lowell: attorney, budget, travel)

[MontanaTripper]

Here's a life question for you....

We have recently moved to Montana from Amherst, MA. We are having a hard time adjusting here, and are considering a move back to MA, possibly the MIddlesex area. We have three young kids. Questions:

1. How are the private/public schools in the area. I have followed other threads, but no one has mentioned Lincoln specifically.

2. Do you think we would find a community pretty quickly? I mean, are people friendly and inclusive? [We found Amherst a little difficult.]

3. Are we nuts leaving 5 acreas and a natural life? What is life like in Middlesex? I have never lived in an area so close to a major city.

Thanks!!

[bmeece]

From what I understand, Middlesex County has some of the best public schools in the state. Lexington High School in particular is excellent. Lincoln also has a great school system.

I don't know how inclusive people are in Middlesex vs. other parts of the state or Montana, but my guess is that it all depends on the neighborhood.

[ogre]

I've never been to Montana (would love to go there at some point, though), so I can't compare it with any place in MA. I have lived in both Middlesex County and Amherst. Everyone's perceptions are different, so I'm not sure what you found difficult about Amherst. I found the people in that general area to be an odd mix of superficially friendly, in an easygoing kind of way, but when you dug a little deeper, very clannish and ultimately cold toward outsiders. Amherst itself further complicates this because the colleges' influence brings a lot of politically correct snootiness, and hostility toward those who don't toe the p.c. line. Basically, someone passing through would probably find the people to be amiable, and ready to engage in relaxed conversation, but if you live there for a while, and you're not originally from the area and part of some local network, you may find the Amherst area to be quite unfriendly.

Boston has a reputation for unfriendliness, but I think that whether this is the case depends on how you define friendly. I've lived in the Boston metro area most of my life, and find that generally people may be a bit reserved out in public about engaging in chit-chat with strangers, though there will be plenty of individual exceptions, and generally people tend to be more friendly, in a low-key sort of way, in more intimate settings. This mix, of outward reserve and low-key amiabaility in more cozy settings, is especially prevalent in the city, and some of the older, more urban suburbs very close to the city. Farther out in the truly suburban and exurban areas, you tend to get the suburban homogeneity in attitudes. In general, people will be friendly and pleasant, though not in a loud, slap-you-on-the-back way, and you may have to get to know people pretty well before they're ready to go help you if your car breaks down in the middle of the night. Keep in mind that much of Middlesex is very affluent, so there can be snootiness, though how much there is depends on specific towns and neighborhoods. There are unfriendly pockets, but in most of the outlying suburban and exurban towns in Middlesex, I think a newcomer would find it much easier to make friends and fit into the community than it is in Amherst.

Being that the western suburbs in general make up an affluent area, many towns have the reputation for having outstanding schools. Keep in mind that housing in the Boston area is pricey, and it's way up there in some of these upscale towns in Middlesex County, so it does cost you to have access to those first-rate schools. Lincoln is a very woodsy town that is right on the border between suburban and exurban in density and character. Nice, well-to-do, clean, outdoorsy town, with good schools and not much local shopping, though the small city of Waltham, right next door, does offer some decent shopping and a number of restaurants. If you can afford these upscale towns in the area, and Lincoln's character appeals to you, another town to check out is Sudbury (which shares a consolidated high school with Lincoln). Very similar to Lincoln, maybe a little more rural, and a little farther from the nearest shopping, though still fairly close to malls in nearby Framingham. You might also take a look at Carlisle and Stow, if the exurbs are what you're seeking. Concord offers a very exurban area, with lots of woods and fields, and also an active little downtown area. Acton is another upscale exurban town in the area with more local shopping than Lincoln, Sudbury, Stow, or Carlisle, but Acton's is mostly in a strip along a highway rather than a quaint downtown. Littleton and Westford are two other exurban towns, where the housing costs are generally lower than in some of these other towns, though be warned that low is a relative term when you talk about housing costs in the Boston area. I'm not sure, but it may be that the schools in Littleton, while probably solid, may not have the powerhouse reputations of the schools in most other towns I've mentioned.

If you want something in this general area that is more suburban than exurban, but still has woods and fields scattered around, you might consider Bedford, Wayland, and, if your housing budget is well up there, Weston. Another very pricey town, which has more of a traditional suburban feel, with grid-pattern streets, distinct neighborhoods, and not so much undeveloped outdoor space, is Wellesley. Take this with a grain of salt, because it's only what I've heard said here and there, but Wellesley may have kind of a reputation for snootiness.

As far as being near a major city goes, the most obvious effect well out in Middlesex County is traffic on the roads. A lot of how this will affect you depends on your situation, like what work you do and what kind of a commute this would entail. If you were planning to work in Boston, you might want to consider using commuter rail, and living in Lincoln, Concord, Littleton, or Acton (or Weston or Wellesley for less exurban towns), which all have commuter rail. If you're driving, be aware that most major thoroughfares throughout the metro area will have lots of traffic during commuting hours. This is true even out in the exurbs. Think rt. 9 going west from Amherst toward I-91 on a Friday afternoon during the summer, on a grand scale. This can make getting around even locally a little testy at times, but as long as you avoid commuting hours, or stick to back roads, this isn't much of a problem when driving around locally in the town where you live.

As for the general character of towns like Lincoln, Sudbury, Concord, Carlisle, Littleton, Acton, Westford, and Stow, they really are very exurban, rural, or low-density suburban, depending on which town and which neighborhood. Woods, fields, ponds, and streams, though finding five acres of land might take some digging, and in these towns, if you did find a five-acre spread, it would really cost. Traveling around the local area where these towns are located, outside of rush hour on major thoroughfares, you really do feel as if you're a little out in the country, and would never guess you were in a metro area of four and a half million.

So, there's an overview. Best of luck with your search.

[endo]

I grew up in Lincoln. Unless you are very wealthy, it is out of reach. Little has changed there in over 100 years, and they like it that way. The twisted Catalpa, the peace sign, the line of Hosta, they were all there thirty-five years ago. The back roads are kept in bad repair on purpose. One, I can think of, is even left unpaved. Much of the land is conservation land, and there are more trees there than when Thoreau traipsed about the area. As a child I loved it; I thought it was paradise. The rich, white folk there get a lot for their money--quaint, pastoral town life a skip off 128.

Middlesex is mostly small New England towns, bedroom communities, changed little over the years throught the power of the wealth residing there. Carlisle, Boxboro, Groton, Pepperell, Townsend, Hopkinton, are some small towns. Cambridge, Waltham, (with Watertown and Belmont), and Lowell are the big cities. There are some small cities like Marlboro, Ayer, Natick, and Framingham (yes, a city), and large towns, Burlington, Woburn, Lexington, and Billerica. Then, there is the medium town: Concord, Acton, Weston, Wayland, Sudbury, Bedford. I cannot think of anything distinctive about Middlesex county that distinguishes it from the the rest of eastern Massachusetts, that is, the North Shore and Metro West. It is generally wealthier than the South Shore or South coast. It also snows more. There are gads of private schools there. Concord alone has at least four; Groton, Lincoln, Weston, Belmont, Cambridge, and Lexington all have at least one; these are the ones I know of. Cambrigde, Waltham, Weston, Framingham, and Lowell have one or more colleges. Farming has all but dissappeared, but there are some hangers on in Littleton, Townsend, Groton, Concord, and even Lexington. The largest farm in the county may be Weston Nurseries in Hopkinton. The hobby farms, Drumlin Farm, Codman Farm, and conservation land in Lincoln do not count, nor do horse stables.

So, money has both preserved the place and cursed it too. If you ain't got it or can't get it, it's best to stay away. Funny how liberals are only liberal with other people's money--never their own. I can never get them to share any of it with me.* They'd rather correct my grammar!

*If you wish to share your wealth with me, please e-mail me for my name and address.

[NY'er lost in MA]

Middlesex County is comprised of many affluent towns as Ogre mentioned. You also must realize that these towns are suburbs and by no means can compare to 5 acres in 'God's Country' where I imagine you are.

3+ acres here in MA in the burbs is going to cost you $800K+

If you go 1+ hours outside of Boston you will get better values, but then you're essentially just moving back east to where you came from with so-so school districts.

I guess the real question is what is your motivation? In the need of more community/development? Have you considered some areas of Colorado. I'm not so sure moving back to MA is the solution....

Keep us posted!

[MontanaTripper]

Thank you all for your great responses.

I *think* we could afford Lincoln, depending on what we could get for our parcel here. Probably would end up with something small, but I understand life has trade offs.

My husband is a professor and I am an attorney, although I am a SAHM with the three little ones for now. We made money selling our house years ago, so we have more flexibility than most people in our professional position. We don't have tons of money to spare on the cost of private schools in MA, from what I can tell. [Private school here costs about $7000/year -- a quarter of what one would pay in the Middlesex area, I think.]

We will visit the Middlesex area this summer, and I will be sure to check out all the towns you all mentioned -- the more rural ones at least -- when we go.

Yes! Amherst was exactly as you said. It was sort of friendly, mostly politically correct in a way that would get you shot out here in Montana.

Thank you all again. I guess the real question will be how we want to live our lives, and what sacrfices we are willing to make to stay here [long, bleak winters, high cost of travel, not very good pay, fewer professional opportunities, no museums to really speak of, really small towns, poverty, etc. versus a natual life, friendly folks, elk and bear in our backyard, lots of natual beauty, a close commuity, being a big fish in a small pond, a different sort of life]. This question, of course, is one no one but us can answer.

But you all have provided me with more information to make it.

MT

[NY'er lost in MA]

...are you considering some areas that are the best of both worlds- as suggested, I think Colorado may have some places that would give you a little more society with just as much nature.

[brightdoglover]

Are you aware that the "Middlesex area" is a large county that comprises many towns and the city of Cambridge?

If you think you can afford Lincoln (with compromises), you certainly might consider nearby Lexington. Of course, in either town, I'm sure you'd love the public schools. Lincoln is more rural, Lexington has much more of a town feel, after all, the town green is where the "shot heard 'round the world" was fired. Very community/family-oriented. I've heard nothing but good about Lexington, and it's very easy to get to Boston/Cambridge from there, or onto Rt. 128 or Rt.2.

Good luck. I hope you find Massachusetts, Middlesex and all, more congenial than your concerns.

[TheWereRabbit]

Originally Posted by endo

There are some small cities like Marlboro, Ayer, Natick, and Framingham (yes, a city), and large towns, Burlington, Woburn, Lexington, and Billerica.

Normally I wouldn't be such a nit-picker but since you went out of your way to insist otherwise I feel I should mention that Framingham is in fact a town, not a city. Framingham is the largest "town" in the state at about 60,000 people.

Woburn is a city, however.

I think it's hard to sum up Middlesex county since counties are so unimportant here but I think everyone has done a good job so far. Lincoln is pretty rural but not compared to 5 acres in MT. Keep in mind Cambridge and Lowell are in Middlesex so it isn't all rich semi-rural suburbs.

[NY'er lost in MA]

right on- interesting:

Framingham is a town in Middlesex County, Massachusetts, United States. As of the 2000 census, the population was 66,910, making it the most populous town in New England. There have been several proposals to change the town's charter to make Framingham a city, but none has succeeded.

I think 8 years later the pop is probably over 70-75K