Springfield 8th best city in US (Boston, Franklin: low crime, attorney, neighborhoods)

[holden125]

Originally Posted by WestMass79

And I'm guessing you've been to none of those places. Durham, NC for instance is regularly in top 10 lists of best places to live and has a fantastic quality of life.

The hillbilly surbabanites that post on this board should move to suburbanite-data.com. They know nothing about real cities. It's amazing they have computers to post, maybe they are all sharing one Tandy out in the woods. The only ghetto in Western Mass is where the hillbillies live. Yee-haw!

I have been to all of those places. The Durham area may make top 10 lists, but Durham itself is a total dump. Springfield is not a total dump, Forest Park is a beautiful neighborhood and I have seen others as well. But the downtown area needs to be revitalized more; there is not quite enough to do and it doesn't feel safe enough to become a destination. I would like to see some investment in our smaller cities like Springfield, Worcester, Bridgeport, Manchester, and a bunch in upstate NY, etc. We now have a situation where there are so many people trying to buy around Boston, NYC etc that (housing decline notwithstanding) they are very expensive, while other cities have been neglected since the manufacturing base left. Seems like a lose-lose. I have spent a lot of time in Europe in the past few years and been in many cities of Springfield's size with great vitality and a good transit network. I think we need to focus on reviving those cities.

I don't think that Springfield, today, is the 8th best city in the U.S.

[WestMass79]

You are right Holden it isn't 8th, it's 6th now!

Of course this is just a fun poll with no data. But it's fun to see Springfield hanging in there.

[Xenos]

I think we need to focus on reviving those cities.

Hear, hear! Rebuilding regional transit networks is a critical part of the solution, too.

With the changes in the economy and society that tend to restrict social mobility, though, choosing anything but the most prestigious educational system you can afford takes considerable bravery. More bravery than I have, at least.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by Xenos

I think we need to focus on reviving those cities.

Hear, hear! Rebuilding regional transit networks is a critical part of the solution, too.

With the changes in the economy and society that tend to restrict social mobility, though, choosing anything but the most prestigious educational system you can afford takes considerable bravery. More bravery than I have, at least.

Good point about choosing the community with the best schools you can afford. Good point too about regional transit. Unfortunately, in a thread about western MA a few weeks ago, one user pointed out that Amtrak service between Springfield and Worcester/Boston has been reduced in the last few years. The question about more transit is, If you build it, will they come? If not, it's not worth building, which is unfortunate because public transit is a big plus, if only people would use it.

[ogre]

Regarding the opposing views of Springfield, it seems to me that there are pros and cons to getting the opinions of a city's residents vs. those of people who know something about that city but don't actually live there. If someone had definitely decided to move to Springfield, then WestMass and others familiar with particular sections of that city would be a good resource for info on where to find the nicer areas. Also, for certain people, for example those without children for whom quality of the schools would not be an issue, people who live in Springfield might be able to clue potential residents into some inside info that could mean the city might work for people in their specific situations.

However, the potential down side of getting info from those who actually live in a place is that it's their home, so they are likely to be biased. Because of affection for their home city, they are less likely to see many of the negatives that are apparent to those from outside who are better able to compare the city in question to other places. One reason that might explain the linked poll's high ranking of Springfield and other cities with bad reputations is that these appear to be rankings of metro areas, judging by those places in the rankings that include several cities in their names (e.g., Detroit/Livonia/etc.). It's true that there are nice towns in the general vicinity of Springfield, and the natural scenery in the rural sections of that area is gorgeous. I've never lived in the city of Springfield proper, I have lived in the area, and have a basic familiarity with Springfield, and I've lived enough places to make comparisons. Unfortunately, I'll have to stick by my earlier statement that Springfield proper is run down and crime-ridden. Nice towns in the vicinity, though.

The reason I did not post these sorts of comments about Springfield until JenniferAZ expressed interest in the city is that there's no point in bashing the city just for the sake of bashing. I was prompted to make an observation only to caution someone expressing an interest in Springfield. No need to bash, but I do stick by my opinion of Springfield, so I felt it would be good to clue in someone who was considering that city. In any case, the question of whether Springfield is as bad as some of have said, or is the really kinda nice place that WestMass says it is, most likely is moot where JenniferAZ is concerned. After all, she said she might consider Springfield because she had heard it was "small townsy." Though it's a matter of personal perception what qualifies as a big city, a small city, or "small townsy," to me Springfield seems more like a larger small city than anything close to what I'd consider a small town.

[WestMass79]

Ogre, while I'll agree with you that I wouldn't classify Springfield as a small town, because it isn't - some of the neighborhoods do have that appeal, but point taken - it is absolutely first and foremost a city.

I'll disagree with you that there is any value in a Boston guy sitting back and making sweeping stereotypes about Springfield while providing no data and no real first hand knowledge. The FBI scaled data I've found (posted in another string) indicates Springfield is safer than Boston, safer than Providence, safer than New Haven, and pretty much safer than every comparable city in New England except Worcester (can't figure that one out).

I suppose I wouldn't have a concern if you were posting that Boston is crime-ridden too, and maybe you are in other strings, but I have a hunch you don't say that about Boston - because you are from there. You have a comfort level, you know what neighborhoods are good, what neighborhoods are bad, and you probably have pride in your hometown. In fact, I'd guess you'd probably be a little bothered if people kept posting on the board that Boston is "crime-ridden", and if the FBI stats are right - it's worse than dangerous Springfield! So I guess they'd have some merit.

I actually find it pretty amazing that someone who has clearly said they have just a passing knowledge of the city would make very firm claims that it is "run-down". As someone who is here living and working, there could be nothing further from the truth.

But I suppose we all have a different degree of comfort in how much information we need to offer what we consider to be an educated opinion. Some folks claim expert on all subjects (not saying this about you, ogre - you seem reasonable), some aren't comfortable doing that. It's the wonder of the internet!

[ogre]

First, let me point out some positive features in Springfield: the Civic Center, where there are various events, including concerts; I believe they have a minor-league hockey team there, which is good, because sports events add to a city's entertainment options; the Basketball Hall of Fame; The Big E (for the uninitiated, that's the Eastern States Exposition, a big fair held in the area each Sept.), which I think may not strictly speaking happen within the city limits of Springfield, but is at least very close by. Being, as WestMass points out, "a Boston guy," I also like the "You are now entering Red Sox country" sign across the street from the Springfield train station, and visible from the loading platform . Which reminds me, it's also a plus that Springfield has Amtrak service.

Now, let me clue you in to something. I'm a huge fan of downtowns. City downtowns and small-town downtowns, either one, I like downtowns. By that, I mean that I like clean, prosperous, active downtowns. Realistically, Springfield's downtown falls far short of meeting that description. Beyond saying that, I won't go into detail unless anyone asks. I will say, though, that it's all too easy for me to picture someone who might be considering a move to Springfield arriving for a visit, taking one look at the city's downtown, and deciding right then and there not to make the move after all, or at the very least having serious doubts.

As for crime, WestMass, I have noticed your thread about the murder rates in several New England cities so far this year. In the long run, though, Springfield has had a very high crime rate in recent years. I've even seen lists of worst cities for crime that have ranked Springfield in the top ten small cities in the entire U.S. for highest crime rates. It is true, as WestMass has pointed out, that I feel comfortable walking Boston's streets in part because I'm familiar with Boston and I know the areas to avoid, as I'm sure is the case in Springfield for a longtime resident of that city. However, there's that thing about downtown again. I'm not sure one way or the other whether downtown Springfield is in fact a very dangerous place, but it certainly does not look or feel safe. Downtown is really a city's heart, so it's a problem if there's not much to do downtown to begin with, and then on top of that people don't feel safe going downtown.

Again, to WestMass, I do relate to what you say about reading repeated negative comments about Springfield. On the Boston sub-forum there are posts from time to time by New Yorkers who love to take potshots at Boston, which I don't entirely appreciate. On the other hand, I do think it helps to have kind of a thick skin if you're going to surf City Data. No city is everyone's favorite, and it's inevitable that you will read negative comments about your home town. One point to keep in mind is that some of those negatives people bring up are true. When those posts by New Yorkers on the Boston sub-forum do no more than point out that NYC has more city amenities than Boston, I simply shrug, because it's true. In the same way, it's reality that Springfield may have its nice neighborhoods, but overall it's not a real garden spot. Nothing wrong with pointing out the best sections of the city for those who might be thinking of moving there, but it's also good to be realistic about the reasons for people's negative comments about Springfield.

What can be a bit irritating is when people get into deliberate put-downs. I don't especially appreciate it when New Yorkers get onto the Boston sub-forum and make Boston out to be a place that has to look up in order to see Mayberry, but generally I react to those portrayals by recongizing that people who need to toss around those kinds of put-downs to make themselves feel important are very insecure, so it's really kind of pathetic. The one time I did get on the case of some New Yorkers who were getting into knocking Boston hot and heavy was when a couple of users really did make Boston out to be almost at the level of Mayberry's little sister, describing Boston as nothing more than a "big village." Even then, what I pointed out to these users was that it was unfair to other users seeking information to give such an inaccurate portrayal of a city these users were asking about. I said nothing about not appreciating their put-downs of my city. It's just not worth it to get personally upset over these kinds of put-downs, because, as I said earlier, there will always be users who make negative observations about your city, no matter what city.

Anyway, there's a little fat to chew on. Take care, and try to stay cool during this little heat wave MA is having.

[WestMass79]

As for crime, WestMass, I have noticed your thread about the murder rates in several New England cities so far this year. In the long run, though, Springfield has had a very high crime rate in recent years.

I just like to get facts out there. People like to speak in stereotypes, or something they heard 10 years ago that stuck in their head. Those are the 6 month murder rates for New England cities *this* year. People can do what they want with them, research them, check them, but there's no debating facts. There is debating opinions though. I like to get away from stereotypes and get to the real facts.

There is no doubt there is crime in Springfield, there is crime in any city of 150,000 people (and small towns of 20,000 people) and by some indicators such as this one - Springfield is safer than places of the same size.

I will say, though, that it's all too easy for me to picture someone who might be considering a move to Springfield arriving for a visit, taking one look at the city's downtown, and deciding right then and there not to make the move after all, or at the very least having serious doubts.

I think that's a problem with all downtown's in New England, at least that of similar size. I'm not comfortable at all in downtown Worcester. Even in the core of downtown Providence, when you get away from the Mall and the riverwalk, it's a bit of a ghosttown. New Haven is wishy washy away from Yale, and Hartford is a ghosttown other than weekdays. It's something we have to deal with as a region, that our downtowns are not what they were and they need special attention.

Overall I agree with much of what you are saying. Best of luck, and you don't deserve the handle name you gave yourself!

[ogre]

Thanks for the compliment, WestMass. True what you said about downtowns in New England. A lot of small and medium-sized cities in New England are former industrial towns, many of which lost a lot of their industry decades ago. It seems that these cities went through a lot of what's happening in the Rust Belt now, only much earlier.

[madeitout]

"I just like to get facts out there. People like to speak in stereotypes, or something they heard 10 years ago that stuck in their head. Those are the 6 month murder rates for New England cities *this* year. " Crime Rate Comparison: Springfield Vs. Boston Springfield is known for its crimes other than murders. Check the aggravated assaults and rapes. All the other crimes are higher than Boston per capita. Yes I grew up in Springfield. I don't know why people defend this city.