Manny Ramirez trade (Boston: appointed, salary, clubhouse)

[holden125]

Now that we've sent the second Red Sox star packing on July 31 in four years, I was wondering if people have any opinions about it.

If you're among those who thinks losing brain cells to thinking about Sox matters is sad and pathetic, please put it on the other forum on that topic and not here.

Personally, I get the sense Manny was really starting to grate on his teammates and Francona, and you know Theo and Co. have been tired of his act for a long time. They prefer model citizens in the clubhouse, and preferably the kind that are (relatively speaking, of course) underpaid. With Manny gone the Sox no longer have any of the top 25 salaries in MLB on the roster; the Yankees have 7. So their high payroll is spread around a bit.

Sox get Jason Bay and give up Manny, Brandon Moss, and Craig Hansen. Bay has stats not that far away from Manny for THIS year, but it's not clear how he adjusts to a new team and especially new pitchers in the AL. He should benefit from the protection of hitting ahead of some good hitters, and will hopefully be better on the things like defense, baserunning, clubhouse behavior, that Theo prizes. He's also much cheaper (though Sox still pay Manny's salary the rest of this year). I'm still not sold on Bay being a sufficient replacement for Manny's production over the long term and I'm not sure, other than removing the distraction, how this improves the team right now. Though it would be hard to play worse than they have of late.

Given that they are paying for Manny anyway, it seems a bit much to give up Moss and Hansen as well and only get Bay back. The last few days I had been praying for some set of circumstances that got Craig Hansen a fresh start elsewhere as it just was not working here, but they should at least get a replacement bullpen arm, which is desperately needed. Moss is a decent backup outfielder right now and could develop into a passable starter.

Overall, Sox must have wanted Manny GONE. They are giving up a lot for a guy who has had some pretty good seasons but nothing truly Manny-esque. High BA is .306 in 2005. Manny's career BA over 14 years is better. High HR's is 35 in 2006. From 1998-2006 Manny topped or matched that 8 years out of 9. The only time he didn't he missed 40+ games. So this is not trading an aging Manny with an attitude problem for a new version of Manny in his prime. It's trading Manny plus others for a cheaper version of JD Drew.

I thought they didn't get much for Nomar either and that worked out pretty well. Hope it works out half as well this time.

[ogre]

I think that unfortunately the Sox were in a weak bargaining position. They HAD to get rid of Manny and the bad attitude he had developed, and had to take whatever deal they could in order to move Manny along, and the other clubs knew it. In the immediate future, this should help. I can't help but feel that Manny's compaining has been affecting the whole team recently, and probably is a factor in their recent slump.

It's unfortunate that they had to focus on making this deal, when the move they really needed to make, at least if they were aiming to be serious contenders this year, was to shore up their middle relief. I'm afraid you can't really compare this to the 11th-hour deal four years ago. That deal took what was already the best team in baseball (I know, they were barely over .500, but remember the injury troubles they'd had for the first four months of the season; maybe I should say they had the potential to be the best with everyone healthy) and made them even better. This one simply replaces one power hitter with another. True, Bay may be a better fielder than Manny, but this is basically just a one-for-one replacement, six replaced by half a dozen, nothing that adds to the team. It's a shame they had to throw Moss into the deal. Again, though, they were in a weak bargaining position.

In the long run, I imagine this will make little difference. It might make some difference next year, but maybe not. Beyond next year, you have to consider the truth that no club contends consistently by standing still. Pinning your hopes for the future on the assumed certainty that any player, no matter how good he is, will play a key role well into the future never works. It's a balancing act. You've got to maintain some stability to succeed, but you can't stand still. It's a shame that this season has not worked out so well. It's especially disappointing when you think of how really good this team looked until it became apparent that the middle relief had faded since last year. Still, I think the club will move ahead in the future and really feel little or no effect from the loss of Manny's bat from the order. We shall see.

[LeavingMA]

They made out alright except they should have gotten some bullpen help. They were in a difficult situation and if manny stayed, most likely wouldn't have picked up his option at the end of the year...so they had to get something in return. It also works out well that they shipped him to the west coast and to the national league. Manny won't be able to DH at all over there.

[NY'er lost in MA]

This trade was not a straight forward MLB trade (value/experience etc)- it was just to get rid of that idiot. (Yes- I AM a Yankees fan but am a true fan of baseball)

Opting out of the All Star game to drink mango juice in the Dominican and numerous phantom hammy injuries and his poor play in the field is just not acceptable for a $20M player- HELLO! Let's not even bring up throwing a 65 year old to the ground. He should have been suspended for 3 games immediately. That was the Sox bad call and allowed things to begin to spiral. Manny is obviously more entertained with his antics than the fans and public.

Read some of Joe Torre's comments on Manny (google it)- it is obvious he is a loose canon. Manny wants 4 years with an AL team to be a DH and what- $50-52M ? He won't get that. I think he may yield 3 years and $36M. If he had just been goofy and not gone over the edge he would have gotten $20M next year!

So- this brings me to the point. Jason Bay will not be as good as him unfortunately- maybe better in the field and around the same production- minus a little to get adjusted to the AL and the parks etc. But in the end the Sox needed bullpen help and they didn't get it. And what about a SS- Lugo should have been moved (although it would be very hard- I understand that). He just isn't a fit for Boston.

And finally- the Angels are very good along with other AL teams- the Manny trade is not going to help them beat these teams.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by NY'er lost in MA

Read some of Joe Torre's comments on Manny (google it)- it is obvious he is a loose canon. Manny wants 4 years with an AL team to be a DH and what- $50-52M ? He won't get that. I think he may yield 3 years and $36M. If he had just been goofy and not gone over the edge he would have gotten $20M next year!

Rumor is Manny thinks he can get 25 M per for 3-4 years. I can't see it. Nobody has gotten that kind of money lately except A-Rod, who frankly is younger and all-around better in every way (though arguably not as clutch). Can't see an NL team paying for him if he can't DH, and the only obvious teams that could afford him in the AL are NYY and Angels, but they both don't really need him and have strict managers that wouldn't take his antics.

Manny compares himself to Nomar and it's a cautionary tale. Nomar thumbed his nose at $15M per for 4 years, not seeing that the market had shifted down. He then alienated everyone, got traded, went to LA later, and has spent most of the time hurt and making a lot less than he turned down. He's only had one good season since he left, and even that year missed 40 games.

[NY'er lost in MA]

I agree. Manny will learn his lesson when he ends up with the Orioles or Toronto for 2 years and $12.5M/year...

[BostonYoureMyHome]

They REALLY should have gotten a relief pitcher in the deal. I'm disappointed.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by BostonYoureMyHome

They REALLY should have gotten a relief pitcher in the deal. I'm disappointed.

Yeah but they'll have to get someone in the waiver period. It's still a concern. What irks me is that the same Pittsburgh that gets four young players for Bay took not all that much to give up Nady and Marte combined. And Lucchino grew up in that city...