New Residents: Now that you've moved to Mass, do you have any regrets? (Boston: foreclose, rent)

[Yankeerose00]

Can someone explain how public transit like the metro or the T doesn't turn a profit? I've often heard that but never understood it. You would think with the mass numbers of people using the metro in places like NY, DC, or Boston that they would be making a huge profit. Anyone know what are the expenses that they don't? Just curious.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by Yankeerose00

Can someone explain how public transit like the metro or the T doesn't turn a profit? I've often heard that but never understood it. You would think with the mass numbers of people using the metro in places like NY, DC, or Boston that they would be making a huge profit. Anyone know what are the expenses that they don't? Just curious.

I think it's basically a political issue. Even at high volume, building, maintaining, and operating such a system is expensive. Transportation by any means other than walking or bicycle is expensive. But the system has to be reasonably accessible to "the masses," many of whom who can't afford to pay much. That means the public as a whole has to pick up some of the cost. Due to demographics and the way people think about the issue, mass transit has not received the public subsidy needed. Even New York, the state most dependent on mass transit (40%+ of the state lives in New York City) spends many times more on roads than on transit subsidies.

Many people who don't take mass transit like to make a big thing about it not being "profitable" because it requires such a public subsidy. But this
reasoning is more than a little disingenuous. The tremendous infrastructure made available to those who drive automobiles is publicly subsidized as well, and to a much greater extent. In the 1950's, before today's congestion and environmental concerns were known, the federal government made a massive investment in the interstate highway system, including a lot of spending to build roads through very rugged and barely populated terrain in western states. Local roads are also publicly built and maintained.

The Mass Pike, the only toll road around here, is not "profitable" because it too receives state and federal subsidies. I-93, which is not enjoyable, is certainly not "profitable" either. All of us, whether we use it or not, chip in for its upkeep.

In addition, the RMV is a state agency, and half the state's police spend their time enforcing driving rules.

But people have not been conditioned to think of these roads as "not profitable." Maybe they would if, in the 1950's, the government had decided to make a massive investment in mass transit and made most of it free, while charging users a fee for every single road they used, and then proceeded to fund trains much more than roads for five decades, people would think travel by automobile was inefficient and criticize the roads for not turning a profit. Then again, there is grumbling about the Pike. So maybe people just grumble about any public subsidy to anything they have to pay out of pocket for.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Many of the posts in this thread are extremely enlightening and reinforce my strong belief that Massachusetts would be a great place for my wife and I to move to eventually (maybe when the economy picks up).

I like the fact that you don't encourage overdevelopment, endless tacky strip malls, Wal-Marts everywhere and fast food chains on every corner. That's a refreshing thing to find in the United States, to be honest. I like the fact that it's not easy to build over there, due to the fact that most of you clearly respect and cherish your very deep and important history.

I am aware that New Englanders in general have a reputation of being somewhat "cold", but I don't see it that way. In fact, as an "old Englander", I relate to that and in all honesty, I'd rather live among more reserved people than the "have a nice day" fake bunch, or as in the case of Miami, the loudest, most obnoxious, overly dramatic people on earth!!

My wife and I currently live in South Florida and both of us hate it. I am from the UK originally, she was born and raised here in Miami. To be honest, my last trip to MA really cured my homesickness (and then some). Boston is probably my favorite city on earth (alongside London) and in my opinion, the MA countryside is even more beautiful than England's countryside.

I will gladly take the cold, higher taxes and even a higher cost of living to live somewhere that I truly love. FL is not for me, nor is it for my wife...it's too plastic, too overdeveloped and it lacks soul. As I am relatively liberal (in some ways), it is also hard to connect to anyone as people really aren't very progressive down here.

The only issue...my wife is a bit worried about whether we'd be accepted as a mixed race couple, if we chose to live in Salem or Lynn, for example. She is afraid of racism from the Irish & Italians in Boston itself...is that really a problem?

Anyway, I look forward to posting in this thread when we're actually living in Mass. I can pretty much guarantee you that I'll have a lot more positive things to say.

[bluewatergirl888]

Originally Posted by BCreass

I like the fact that you don't encourage overdevelopment, endless tacky strip malls, Wal-Marts everywhere and fast food chains on every corner. That's a refreshing thing to find in the United States, to be honest. I like the fact that it's not easy to build over there, due to the fact that most of you clearly respect and cherish your very deep and important history.

This is one of the things that keeps me from moving anywhere else. I have a hard time picturing myself in an area over run with strip malls and cookie cutter developments. They are creeping in here a little bit, but far less than other areas.

Good luck with your move.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Originally Posted by bluewatergirl888

This is one of the things that keeps me from moving anywhere else. I have a hard time picturing myself in an area over run with strip malls and cookie cutter developments. They are creeping in here a little bit, but far less than other areas.

Good luck with your move.

Thanks...it'll happen one day.

Cookie cutter homes do exist in other places, but at least in your neck of the woods, they don't make up the majority of the housing stock.

[VlyRoadKid]

Originally Posted by BCreass

Many of the posts in this thread are extremely enlightening and reinforce my strong belief that Massachusetts would be a great place for my wife and I to move to eventually (maybe when the economy picks up).

I like the fact that you don't encourage overdevelopment, endless tacky strip malls, Wal-Marts everywhere and fast food chains on every corner. That's a refreshing thing to find in the United States, to be honest. I like the fact that it's not easy to build over there, due to the fact that most of you clearly respect and cherish your very deep and important history.

I am aware that New Englanders in general have a reputation of being somewhat "cold", but I don't see it that way. In fact, as an "old Englander", I relate to that and in all honesty, I'd rather live among more reserved people than the "have a nice day" fake bunch, or as in the case of Miami, the loudest, most obnoxious, overly dramatic people on earth!!

My wife and I currently live in South Florida and both of us hate it. I am from the UK originally, she was born and raised here in Miami. To be honest, my last trip to MA really cured my homesickness (and then some). Boston is probably my favorite city on earth (alongside London) and in my opinion, the MA countryside is even more beautiful than England's countryside.

I will gladly take the cold, higher taxes and even a higher cost of living to live somewhere that I truly love. FL is not for me, nor is it for my wife...it's too plastic, too overdeveloped and it lacks soul. As I am relatively liberal (in some ways), it is also hard to connect to anyone as people really aren't very progressive down here.

The only issue...my wife is a bit worried about whether we'd be accepted as a mixed race couple, if we chose to live in Salem or Lynn, for example. She is afraid of racism from the Irish & Italians in Boston itself...is that really a problem?

Anyway, I look forward to posting in this thread when we're actually living in Mass. I can pretty much guarantee you that I'll have a lot more positive things to say.

It's SOOO Nice to read something POSITIVE about Mass. for a change, rather than the know-nothing tripe spewed by those who think we're all cold-shouldering Commies (well, some of us are...but we don't drag our ideological opponents to death behind PICK-UP TRUCKS...now, do we?!), or Liberals.

Well that last bit is TRUE for most of the state. I never worry about our electorate (I KNOW they'll vote Dem.), for instance!

As for the concern about tacky strip malls: our version is a 7-mile stretch along Rte. 9, from Amherst to Northampton. and anything south of Easthampton on I-91 or Rte 5-10 is up for grabs...but NOTHING like, say, Framingham!

And the racial thing? My 18 y.o. kid just had his Hawaiian/Filipina girlfriend visiting for 10 days and they went all over the Valley with no incident, except for her meeting another (native) Filipina who worked in a local chain drug store and saying hi!

I've been roasted and toasted over on the Hawaii site (check it out...it's NUTS!) where it's assumed I'm racist because I'm (EGAD!) WHITE!....they just don't get it.

In the Valley: WE DON'T CARE!!! We (MOST of us) don't care what race you are, what religion (if any), what ethnicity, nor sexual orientation. If you sit on a bench in Northampton and eat your lunch for 1/2 hour on any given day, I guarantee you will see things that NOBODY bats an eye, but that could get them arrested in most of the rest of the "FREE" U.S. of A."!!!

Welcome to Paradise!

[holden125]

Originally Posted by VlyRoadKid

but we don't drag our ideological opponents to death behind PICK-UP TRUCKS...now, do we?!

Hmmm...now this is giving me ideas. Too bad I don't have a pick-up truck. A propos, a couple of months before the 2004 election, I was driving my then-girlfriend's car on a mountain road in Colorado. She had a Kerry/Edwards sticker on the back window. Some guy in a pickup truck covered in mud started tailgating me, going around hairpin turns at about 70. Finally I pulled into a clearing on the side of the road and the guy pulled in and started yelling about liberal commie terrorists or something, then drove off in a cloud of dust. That night I'm walking on a quiet street in town after having dinner and the same guy drives up and starts his routine again. I'm walking and he's driving at about 5 mph yelling at me. Finally I told him to shut his mouth, and he gets out of the truck and starts shoving me and yelling about "America-haters" and "bad Americans." Push came to shove (literally) and I wound up in the only fight I've been in in 20 years, right in the middle of the street. And I won that fight pretty decisively.

I left the guy sprawled on the ground and told him if I ever saw him again and he suggested I didn't have a right to vote for whomever I pleased, he would sorely regret it. I don't go around doing this kind of thing and I don't condone it, but it was quite cathartic. At this point I had been driving for two weeks solid through places Alabama, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and encountering thinly veiled threats of violence the whole time, from fellow guests at the Motel 6 or gas station attendants or random strangers, all because of that Kerry sticker. I had about enough of these people suggesting that they had some kind of monopoly on my country and that the state that started the country somehow didn't count as part of it anymore. Say what you will about Massachusetts, but I've never heard of anyone with a Bush or McCain sticker actually being stalked on a deserted road or jumped in the street for it.

I've been to 46 states and I don't regret going to a single place I've visited. I thought all of those places were fascinating to visit, but honestly I could see myself living in maybe 3 of those 46 states (since the missing ones are North Dakota, Utah, Idaho, and Alaska, I think it's safe to say I wouldn't fit in there either). Of course I am biased, but of all 50 I love Massachusetts most of all and the more I travel the more I appreciate it. Whenever I hear all this stuff about Massachusetts being too liberal, too unfriendly, too expensive, etc., I basically know that there's a dividing line of what people value and that person and I are not on the same side of it. These god-awful places that people extol because they're cheaper are cheaper for a reason.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Originally Posted by holden125

Hmmm...now this is giving me ideas. Too bad I don't have a pick-up truck. A propos, a couple of months before the 2004 election, I was driving my then-girlfriend's car on a mountain road in Colorado. She had a Kerry/Edwards sticker on the back window. Some guy in a pickup truck covered in mud started tailgating me, going around hairpin turns at about 70. Finally I pulled into a clearing on the side of the road and the guy pulled in and started yelling about liberal commie terrorists or something, then drove off in a cloud of dust. That night I'm walking on a quiet street in town after having dinner and the same guy drives up and starts his routine again. I'm walking and he's driving at about 5 mph yelling at me. Finally I told him to shut his mouth, and he gets out of the truck and starts shoving me and yelling about "America-haters" and "bad Americans." Push came to shove (literally) and I wound up in the only fight I've been in in 20 years, right in the middle of the street. And I won that fight pretty decisively.

I left the guy sprawled on the ground and told him if I ever saw him again and he suggested I didn't have a right to vote for whomever I pleased, he would sorely regret it. I don't go around doing this kind of thing and I don't condone it, but it was quite cathartic. At this point I had been driving for two weeks solid through places Alabama, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and encountering thinly veiled threats of violence the whole time, from fellow guests at the Motel 6 or gas station attendants or random strangers, all because of that Kerry sticker. I had about enough of these people suggesting that they had some kind of monopoly on my country and that the state that started the country somehow didn't count as part of it anymore. Say what you will about Massachusetts, but I've never heard of anyone with a Bush or McCain sticker actually being stalked on a deserted road or jumped in the street for it.

I've been to 46 states and I don't regret going to a single place I've visited. I thought all of those places were fascinating to visit, but honestly I could see myself living in maybe 3 of those 46 states (since the missing ones are North Dakota, Utah, Idaho, and Alaska, I think it's safe to say I wouldn't fit in there either). Of course I am biased, but of all 50 I love Massachusetts most of all and the more I travel the more I appreciate it. Whenever I hear all this stuff about Massachusetts being too liberal, too unfriendly, too expensive, etc., I basically know that there's a dividing line of what people value and that person and I are not on the same side of it. These god-awful places that people extol because they're cheaper are cheaper for a reason.

Great post!

You know, I live in South Florida and before the election, my wife put an Obama/Biden sticker on the back. I wasn't too keen on the idea, mainly because many of the Cubans in this part of the world are *very* anti-Democrat Party.

Anyway, I was right....drivers down here are crazy at the best of times, but ever since that sticker has been on the back of my car, I've been tailgated a *lot* more than I used to. Add to that, I've also had co-workers making stupid comments, particularly the Republican that sits right next to me.

Just before the election, there were even cases of people having Obama signs / placards stolen or vandalized by mindless idiots.

Can't wait to move to Mass eventually...I'm glad you guys are more "progressive', in that sense.

...and you're right, those "cheaper" states are cheap for a reason. If your life depends on paying as little tax as possible and plenty of sunshine, places like FL will be right for you. However, all that comes at a price; a huge price. Schools are far worse, mass transit is virtually non-existent, people are obnoxious and ignorant (not all, but many) and there's basically nothing to see, unless you take great pleasure in strip mall spotting, or counting the tens of thousands of cookie cutter homes.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Originally Posted by VlyRoadKid

It's SOOO Nice to read something POSITIVE about Mass. for a change, rather than the know-nothing tripe spewed by those who think we're all cold-shouldering Commies (well, some of us are...but we don't drag our ideological opponents to death behind PICK-UP TRUCKS...now, do we?!), or Liberals.

Well that last bit is TRUE for most of the state. I never worry about our electorate (I KNOW they'll vote Dem.), for instance!

As for the concern about tacky strip malls: our version is a 7-mile stretch along Rte. 9, from Amherst to Northampton. and anything south of Easthampton on I-91 or Rte 5-10 is up for grabs...but NOTHING like, say, Framingham!

And the racial thing? My 18 y.o. kid just had his Hawaiian/Filipina girlfriend visiting for 10 days and they went all over the Valley with no incident, except for her meeting another (native) Filipina who worked in a local chain drug store and saying hi!

I've been roasted and toasted over on the Hawaii site (check it out...it's NUTS!) where it's assumed I'm racist because I'm (EGAD!) WHITE!....they just don't get it.

In the Valley: WE DON'T CARE!!! We (MOST of us) don't care what race you are, what religion (if any), what ethnicity, nor sexual orientation. If you sit on a bench in Northampton and eat your lunch for 1/2 hour on any given day, I guarantee you will see things that NOBODY bats an eye, but that could get them arrested in most of the rest of the "FREE" U.S. of A."!!!

Welcome to Paradise!

See, nowhere is perfect, but you just described somewhere that I'd genuinely like to live. Nowhere is perfect, but of all the states in the US, Mass is probably the best match for me. I like scenery, Irish pubs, history and I like to be surrounded by people who for the most part, aren't as ignorant as they are in other places.

My wife and I were considering Salem actually. Is that a good place to live (we'd probably work in Boston & commute via train, since I hate driving anyway).

I know taxes are going to be higher there (a trade-off, as far as I'm concerned), but what's the average electric bill for say, a 1 bedroom apartment? Here in FL, I pay anywhere between $80 and $130 a month,, because I need to have the A/C on pretty much 24/7.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Limited discussion of politics is entirely relevant to this thread (and other relocation threads), because some people want to be around those who are politically "on the same page" as they are (at least, for the most part). As I am considering moving to MA in the future, I want to know about people's political opinions and beliefs, because I do plan to make friends and have intelligent, adult conversations with people I meet. Suffice to say, if MA was full of right-wing Christian fundamentalists, I don't think I'd move there (no offense to any right-wing Christian fundamentalists who may be reading this).