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We ride the bike path a few times every summer. Warren has gentrified some but it's still over 10% poverty rate and only about 50% owner-occupied housing.
Yes, definitely some low income but it is safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
Look at the demographics. 10,000 people. It's 96.2% white alone. It's nothing like the immigrant melting pot cities like Fall River and New Bedford.
I think lrfox lumped Warren in with the other places due to the Portuguese population. But that wouldn't make sense with Lowell (large southeast Asian population, not Portuguese), so I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
Since this is a Fall River thread, I'd put in a plug for Portugalia as worth an occasional stop. An upscale (for Fall River) Portuguese market. Also, Blount Soup Market 1/4 mile east of there since they're the dominant restaurant clam chowder supplier in the region.
I'll put in a Fall River plug also: Patti's Pierogis -- the only reason I'll even go to Fall River these days.
I guess I stand corrected, although I'm certainly surprised based on what I've seen and heard. I definitely wouldn't say I personally feel in danger there, although the countless strung out people right in the open does gives it a sad and less than comfortable feel. Last few times there (fishing at the Veteran's Park, visiting people in the North End, going out to eat, etc.) there definitely appeared to be more sketchy people in general than in years past. I never noticed it as much back round the early 2000s, when I spent quite a bit of time in the city. Perhaps I was just younger and less likely to care or notice. Heroin is bad all over the state now, although Fall River has one of the highest OD rates. Glad to see the major UCR crimes are down.
I think the very visible presence of people nodding off or strung out on opioids is the single reason that, in spite of the relatively significant decrease in crime, I can't say it feels safer. It's impossible to ignore the sheer volume of people on drugs and kind of meandering around the city and, while I can't speak for you, I think that definitely impacts the feeling of safety. Really, like the walking dead. I live in Somerville (Davis Square) now and work in downtown Boston, so I see plenty of it here too (yesterday I saw a guy nod off while standing, pass out, fall and spill his change cup, and his "friend" picked up all the change and walked away); but in Fall River it's more widespread and - as you said - the overdose rate is significantly higher than most places. I know two firemen in the city who are looking into other career opportunities because they spend the vast majority of their time doing Narcan injections for people who have OD'd, taking them to the hospital, only to go back to the same apartment 2 days later and do it all over again. It's leading to burnout at rapid rates. So while it is everywhere, it's diluted elsewhere a bit more. In Fall River it really permeates the culture and feel of the place. It's kind of hanging over everyone's head. I'm amazed at how many people on my periphery down there were involved in it. My ex (from Fall River) lost her fiance to an overdose before we dated. in the 2+ years we dated, we went to 5 funerals for people (of all ages and tax brackets - definitely not just a certain crowd) who died of overdoses. You can't escape it in Fall River.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redplum33
I think lrfox lumped Warren in with the other places due to the Portuguese population. But that wouldn't make sense with Lowell (large southeast Asian population, not Portuguese), so I don't know.
I included it because it's very close to Fall River and, like Lowell and New Bedford, has seen renewed investment in the center of town/waterfront in spite of a long history of being fairly low-income and looked down upon by people in the area. It had nothing to do with the race/ethnic makeup of the place. I still agree that Warren is VERY different from those other places (and yes, much safer), but the renewed investment is one area of parallel it has with Lowell and New Bedford.
I included it because it's very close to Fall River and, like Lowell and New Bedford, has seen renewed investment in the center of town/waterfront in spite of a long history of being fairly low-income and looked down upon by people in the area. It had nothing to do with the race/ethnic makeup of the place. I still agree that Warren is VERY different from those other places (and yes, much safer), but the renewed investment is one area of parallel it has with Lowell and New Bedford.
Warren a small working class town in a desirable location so it's gentrifying. It's not a failed city.
Lowell sits next to an enormous high wage zone on I-495 and Route 3 plus commuter rail to North Station. New Bedford and Fall River will always have a problem gentrifying because of the poor local economy and pathetic Boston transportation infrastructure. Tourism cleaning up a waterfront will only take you so far since it's all service sector jobs. Improve Route 24, do the Phase II train so it's commutable to Back Bay Station & South Station, and you might be able to hit critical mass where there are enough local white collar people to locate high wage white collar jobs there. Look at the census data. It's a very poorly educated workforce. It can't compete. At my 40th High School reunion, pretty much anyone who went to a good college left the area. The same kind of brain drain you see in any place with limited economic opportunity.
Warren a small working class town in a desirable location so it's gentrifying. It's not a failed city.
Lowell sits next to an enormous high wage zone on I-495 and Route 3 plus commuter rail to North Station. New Bedford and Fall River will always have a problem gentrifying because of the poor local economy and pathetic Boston transportation infrastructure. Tourism cleaning up a waterfront will only take you so far since it's all service sector jobs. Improve Route 24, do the Phase II train so it's commutable to Back Bay Station & South Station, and you might be able to hit critical mass where there are enough local white collar people to locate high wage white collar jobs there. Look at the census data. It's a very poorly educated workforce. It can't compete. At my 40th High School reunion, pretty much anyone who went to a good college left the area. The same kind of brain drain you see in any place with limited economic opportunity.
Again, I fully understand the differences - they're vast and significant. The reason I included is that it's the closest (in terms of physical proximity) place to Fall River that's a good example of a successfully gentrifying working class community. I'm not saying Fall River is a similar place to Warren. New Bedford is a much more comparable city in terms of size and demographics, but I'd argue it's still different because of its viable port and working waterfront (Fall River's port is in a different league) as well as its solid urban bones and great aesthetics in a historic downtown. Fall River can't compete on that front - New Bedford has more to work with. You already pointed the advantages Lowell has. The overarching point is that all three places - Lowell, New Bedford, and Warren, have different advantages in their own scenarios that have contributed to the level of success they've had in making improvements and gentrifying. Fall River needs help.
I agree with your ingredients for FR/NB gentrification. I'd also push for more regional integration both in terms of services and philosophy. It's always amazed me how everyone in Fall River seems to think they live on an island. People (both residents and officials) act as if neighboring towns are on a different planet. Fall River has a history of fighting against neighbors when it should be cooperating on development (especially the "biopark" which is partially in Freetown). It's shocking to me that you can't transfer directly from a SRTA bus to a GATRA or RIPTA bus for connection with Taunton/Attleboro or Providence. Geographical isolation is an obstacle, but the city hasn't done itself any favors either.
Sometimes it feels like a zombie apocalypse in FR. East/South/North Main Streets are riddled with people just out of their minds, high on who knows what. I mean, those areas have always attracted that crowd but it’s by far worse than ever, at least in my lifetime.
The saddest part for me is the main FR library. It’s a fantastic place but these people swam it, inside and out. As a result, I no longer go there with my kids; we stick to other libraries in surrounding towns. I drove by the other week to drop off books in the box and a guy was sitting near the side entrance, hunched over on the brink of passing out, repeatedly stabbing his bag (of who knows what) with an object (not a knife but unsure what it was). This is a common sight throughout the city.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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What is the fear of opioid addicts? I don't get people being afraid around them. Yeah, it looks bad, and its really sad, but what is the fear? I understanding fearing people on meth or bath salts/flacca, or even crack heads, as they're erratic, but opioid abusers tend to zombie out and nod off. Saw tons of them when I was working at North Station, and it's dismal, but hardly something to be fearful of... what are they going to do, pass out in front of me and trip me?
What is the fear of opioid addicts? I don't get people being afraid around them. Yeah, it looks bad, and its really sad, but what is the fear? I understanding fearing people on meth or bath salts/flacca, or even crack heads, as they're erratic, but opioid abusers tend to zombie out and nod off. Saw tons of them when I was working at North Station, and it's dismal, but hardly something to be fearful of... what are they going to do, pass out in front of me and trip me?
I don't know if "fear" is the right word because I don't think too many people feel unsafe. Maybe unpleasant is a better characterization. It's depressing to see - especially in the volumes you see in Fall River (you mentioned N. Station - it's like a much more widespread version of Causeway St. in front of the 7/11). The sight of opioid addicts only bothers me from the standpoint of it being a visual representation of the larger crisis. And in Fall River, it indicates just how bad the problem is when you see it so widespread. And it's easy to see why people find it unpleasant. I've seen them pooping on the street in broad daylight. Helped pull them out of Causeway street because they're stumbling into traffic, watched them fall flat on their face, etc. No, it's not as bad or "scary" as someone on the uppers/hallucinogens, but there's an unpredictability factor and combined with the overall unpleasantness, it is dismal. It really paints a bad picture of a place. Fall River is a prime example.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I don't know if "fear" is the right word because I don't think too many people feel unsafe. Maybe unpleasant is a better characterization. It's depressing to see - especially in the volumes you see in Fall River (you mentioned N. Station - it's like a much more widespread version of Causeway St. in front of the 7/11). The sight of opioid addicts only bothers me from the standpoint of it being a visual representation of the larger crisis. And in Fall River, it indicates just how bad the problem is when you see it so widespread. And it's easy to see why people find it unpleasant. I've seen them pooping on the street in broad daylight. Helped pull them out of Causeway street because they're stumbling into traffic, watched them fall flat on their face, etc. No, it's not as bad or "scary" as someone on the uppers/hallucinogens, but there's an unpredictability factor and combined with the overall unpleasantness, it is dismal. It really paints a bad picture of a place. Fall River is a prime example.
It is dismal and depressing. In some ways it is "better" than some of the other drug issues in that it is sooo obvious, and soo dismal and depressing, that perhaps that might spur us to make a change in our failed policies and drug war. We've had epidemics for decades, the drug of choice has just changed, and this drug group in particular is blatantly obvious in its effects on people. I don't have much hope for that considering how right wing our society is, but if it being shoved in our faces daily won't spur us to make a change, nothing will. It IS unpleasant, it should be unpleasant, if we want things to be more pleasant, lets change our stupid policies around drugs.
It is dismal and depressing. In some ways it is "better" than some of the other drug issues in that it is sooo obvious, and soo dismal and depressing, that perhaps that might spur us to make a change in our failed policies and drug war. We've had epidemics for decades, the drug of choice has just changed, and this drug group in particular is blatantly obvious in its effects on people. I don't have much hope for that considering how right wing our society is, but if it being shoved in our faces daily won't spur us to make a change, nothing will. It IS unpleasant, it should be unpleasant, if we want things to be more pleasant, lets change our stupid policies around drugs.
In a state that already spends 25% of tax money on Medicaid, it's kind of tough to go it alone. Treating addiction is expensive. There ain't gonna be any Federal help or policy changes from the current people in power.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
In a state that already spends 25% of tax money on Medicaid, it's kind of tough to go it alone. Treating addiction is expensive. There ain't gonna be any Federal help or policy changes from the current people in power.
True enough. It isn't just about treating addiction though. Especially not how we do it, which is expensive and has poor results. It's far far more cost effective to prevent people from getting into drugs in the first place. That's the problem with our society. Not with just drugs, but with anything along these lines. We will only spend (ineffectually) on the back end after there is a problem. It's just idiotic. People don't want to invest to prevent crime, they are fine (well, relatively fine) in spending more to lock people up. Of course, follow the $$$.
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