Suddenly forced to move to MA and scared about it. Kindly asking for help! (Boston: transplants, real estate)

[CaseyB]

Let's get back on topic and see if we can help the OP.

Syracusa, what country were you from originally?

[DowntownVentura]

Syracusa, have you considered renting for a year or so? That way you would find which neighborhood works for you and (based on whether you are working) determine what your budget is.

I live in California so I don't have a lot of knowledge of Massachusetts but I do like the state a lot. I like the history, the terrain, and the people. I like 'visiting' the weather.

Good luck and have fun

[ogre]

First, let me say that I'm sorry to hear about your husband's layoff. I once went through a period of unemployment, so I know it's tough. It's good to hear, though, that he has a job possibility. I know it's difficult to face the prospect of moving to a whole different region of the country where you have no roots, all the more so when you already miss your roots in Europe. I hope that the information you've gotten here about the Boston area helps give you a picture of the place, so it might not seem quite so strange and far away. There has been a lot of good information here. I have some thoughts to add.

Housing: Yes, it's often true that expensive houses in this area are not as grand as houses of similar price might be in some cities. Part of this has to do with the fact that Boston's greatest population growth happened some time ago, so there's a lot of older housing stock here. Many people around here also tend not to go in for ostentatious displays of wealth. There are exceptions, but for many wealthy people in this area, the preference often is to live in a nice comfortably large house, not necessarily a palace. The more expensive suburbs of Boston often are viewed as especially desirable locales because of the quality of the shools, convenient commuting locations, safety, clean appearance, etc., rather than being filled with grand estates.

I third Casey's and DowntownV's suggestion to rent when you first move to the area. In addition to the fact that it gives you the chance to get to know the area before committing to a particular town, it will probably save you some money while you work toward getting settled in a new academic position.

Once you are settled into a new position perhaps your combined income will allow for an increase in the housing budget. If you plan to buy at some point with the budget you're aiming for right now, I'd suggest that you consider going the condo route. I'm not really familiar with what condos are going for these days, but they're generally going to be cheaper than stand-alone houses, and allow you to live in a nicer town while not going overboard on the housing budget.

Suburbs to consider: As Casey pointed out, the towns near Reading tend to be neither really urban nor very rural, but decidedly suburban. I don't know much about the schools in most of the towns in that area, or the availability of condominiums, should you decide to go that route at first, so I'm suggesting towns based on other factors, like just basically being pleasant suburbs to live in. Some towns fairly close to Reading you might consider which are clean and pleasant towns, and suburban rather than rural, would be Wakefield, Stoneham, Andover, Burlington, Lynnfield, and Billerica.

Two factors which would influence your choices of the best town would be the length of commute you prefer and whether you would want to use public transit. If you could provide that information, it would help people here on the forum to narrow down the possilities.

Depending on your commuting preferences, some nice towns to consider that are suburban but more cityish than some of my suggestions above, in the sense of being somewhat more densely populated, and having fairly large and varied downtowns by suburban standards, would be Beverly, Melrose, and Winchester. These towns are kind of on the expensive side, Beverly and Winchester especially, so these towns might especially be places where you would want to find out what condos might be available. The same is true of Lexington, which is kind of mixed in character when it comes to how city-like the town seems--the residential neighborhoods feel very suburban, but the downtown has a pretty good-sized collection of stores for a suburb. Depending on the length of commute you can deal with, Cambridge is a place you might consider living for more of an urban setting. How urban depends on the section of Cambridge, but generally you're not far from an urban setting in most of Cambridge. As with most of the other places I've suggested, I don't know much about the schools in Cambridge, so that's something you'd need to research.

Finding academic positions: I agree with Beachcomber's suggestion to be creative in the kinds of teaching situations you seek. Also, even though academic positions in general seem to be difficult to find, the fact that your graduate degree is not from a highly prestigious school should not make it unusually difficult to find a position in Boston, especially if you are flexible about the places where you might consider teaching. It's true that a person would need extraordinary credentials to land a faculty job at Harvard, but there are many colleges in the Boston metropolitan area. Many of them are smaller schools that do not have the prestige of Harvard, but are still solid schools. Think of the colleges in the Atlanta metro as a comparison. There are highly regarded schools like Emory, Morehouse, and Georgia Tech on one end of the scale. At the other end there is Robert Morris college, which I've heard has had some serious problems with its administration. In between are a lot of schools not as well known as the first three I mentioned, but still good solid schools where teaching would be a fulfilling experience. The same is true of many colleges in Boston and vicinity.

Cliquishness: There are some older blue-collar towns in the area where a lot of families have lived for several generations. Some of these towns can be kind of closed off toward outsiders. Fortunately, the more middle-class suburban kinds of towns in the vicinity of Reading are for the most part not like this. One advantage of suburbs is that there are a lot of people moving in from other places, so these communities tend not to be highly insular.

I grew up in a suburb of Boston, then lived in another state for a number of years, then moved back. This lets me have an insider's understanding of attitudes in Boston while also being able to have somewhat of the perspective of one who can compare Boston to other places. Something that I have observed from this perspective is a certain pro-Boston chauvinism among a lot of Bostonians. I'm not talking here about hostility toward outsiders. I'm talking about people being comfortable--some people might say a little too comfortable--in the notion that Boston is so wonderful that they can't undrstand why anyone would possibly want to live anywhere else since Boston is obviously the greatest place on earth. This can sometimes rub you the wrong way if you've seen some places outside of Boston and know they have their good points too, but it's basically something that is best to just shrug off when you hear this kind of talk. People aren't meaning to be hostile. It's more that they get sort of carried away with building up the place where they live. And in fact Boston is nice in a lot of ways, so to some extent it's understandable that people who live there would be especially proud of their home.

Boston as a European city: As others have pointed out, Boston is an American city. Boston's older buildings and classic architecture may make it look more European than many other American cities, but you aren't likely to truly feel as if you're back in Europe while living in Boston. However, Boston does have a number of the physical characteristics you have said you liked about European cities. It has beautiful old buildings, people walking in the streets, parks and gardens, monuments, and museums. Boston even has eclectic little shops, and cafes with table service out on the sidewalks during nice weather.

So, moving to Boston would not be exactly like moving to Europe, but it might give you a hint of Europe you're probably not getting so much in a newer city like Atlanta. Any move to a place where you have no history is going to be a bit intimidating, and Boston does have its disadvantages, including high housing costs, but you just might find a lot to like about Boston.

[maggiekate]

I was Born in Boston and lived there and the State of MA for almost my life. Boston is a great place to be, and I also love my city where I was born. Boston, is friendly however, just read history
and this city grows on you the cold the and the sun! Believe! Just a thought why once you love the city or go there then Red Sox Nation?
A mystery of a Nation who had Boston with a tea party?

[ro7586]

based on your criteria, and what I see as your likes and dislikes, it seems you'de be happier in the towns/cities within rt. 128, areas that also happen to be some of the most expensive.

The most walkable, urban-like areas I'de recommend are the Town of Brookline and the Villages of Chestnut Hill and Newton Centre within the City of Newton (just to the west of Boston proper). These areas have great public school systems, a nice urban feel, and great greenspace with room to breathe. They also have good access to Rt. 128 for your husbands commute. They are also super close to Boston (Brookline being the closest) and have excellent access to public transportation (Both are served by the Riverside 'D' Branch of the Green Line of the MBTA).

The areas are also definetly pricey, and the amount you spend on a decent size home in these areas will be substantially more than what you would spend on a similar sized home in Atlanta.

Further outside of the core around Boston, you might find towns like Belmont, Arlington, Wellesley and Sudbury to be nice. Hope this helps.

[Concepts]

I feel like the "killjoy" of the forum again but here goes....In the cities and towns of Arlington, Belmont, Brookline, Cambridge, Newton/Chestnut Hill, Reading, Sudbury, Wellesley, Jamaica Plain, Lexington and Winchester - guess how many homes are on the market between $300,000 and $350,000 with 2000 square feet?

ONE!

So, in a way, ProfessorSenator is correct. Compromises are going to have to be made. Either a house in the suburbs - although it need not be "rural" or renting for a year and figuring out just where she wants to be.

[charolastra00]

There's a reason why there are hundreds if not thousands of foreclosed and unsellable homes in the Atlanta area.

Anyway, I grew up in Atlanta, go to college in Boston, just got back from a year abroad (8 months of that in 2 European countries and traveling to about 10 more- including Eastern Europe!), and am probably going to GA State for grad school since the scholarship train doesn't seem to continue after undergrad. :P I guess I sort of have a unique perspective as to what you are worried about.

For one, Boston might be the most European of cities in the US but it certainly isn't European. You do get the great "mind your business" attitude of most of Europe that seems to be sorely lacking in the South. However, you can walk, there is reasonable public transportation, and the city is much more dense than Atlanta- all things that are more "European" and quite frankly are great.

Also, most Boston-area public schools are better than their equivalents in Atlanta. I'm not sure where your kids currently go to school, but I went to school in one of the best districts in GA (including the hands down best high school for foreign languages) and I really think, aside from the level of Spanish I left high school with, that my education paled in comparison to most MA schools. Of course there are bad ones out there as well but it's not a huge problem that you need to be concerned with. Unfortunately, I can't really advise you there as I do not have children.

As far as uni positions, as I'm sure you know all colleges are struggling financially. However, don't be so concerned with the Ivy Leaguers. I go to a top 30 university outside of Boston and some of my professors got their degrees from much lesser schools. And keep in mind that there are a multitude of universities and community colleges in the area. I highly doubt Mass Bay CC (which is one of the best CCs in the country) and UMass Lowell are staffed by all Ivy Leaguers. What area do you lecture? Would it be possible for you to move into the nonprofit or business world? It's a tough job market but Boston is supposedly faring better than most.

You will probably need to downsize the house (and let's face it, GA homes are almost entirely too large anyway- plus it's a completely different monster when you need to heat it!), possibly rent for awhile, and adjust your job status. However, it could be a great move!

Good luck!

[atf487]

re: class issue

I don't think the divide is something that is universal throughout the region. I live in an area with some towns that have reputations for arrogance, usually they're quiet commuter towns with really high real estate prices. Specifically I'm thinking of Dover, Needham, Westwood, and Medfield to a lesser extent. There are some suburbs outside of the city that are more welcoming, I usually hear good things about Somerville and Newton, being home to a lot of young professionals.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Charolastra has it right.

As an immigrant myself, I've lived in Atlanta, Boston and now in Western Europe so maybe I can shed some light for you. I would classify Boston as halfway between U.S. and Europe in attitudes and city layout. All your fears are those shared by my spouse who is also European. She hated Atlanta, but loved Boston. So, maybe that will help.

People are tough to get to know but no tougher than Atlanta. So, you'll be fine. Keep in mind, but generally the closer you are to Boston, the more diverse, cosmopolitan it will be. Boston has a huge mix of Europeans, Asians, South Americans so no one really fits which ironically makes everyone fit in as they are all in the same boat.

Attitudes are much more liberal than Atlanta. There's more thought for the environment but not as much as Europeans. People tend to mind their own business. However, you can make great friends here too if you try.

Density: European density with a nice mix of density interspersed with parks and nature. However, people drive too much here compared to Europe and there are not enough walking or bike paths. It is however way ahead when compared to other Sun-Belt American cities like Atlanta.

Walkability: Walkable only in city core area, but not as walkable as European cities.

Boston has ton of colleges and universities. So, hopefully, you'll find something here. It ranges from tiny liberal arts to large public universities to elite private schools. Education is one of the top draws to Boston.

Good luck.

[syracusa]

Thank you so, so much for all replies. I really appreciate them as I feel I am starting to get a real understanding of what kind of lifestyle we could expect in Boston. My reply comes a little late as Professorsenator succesfully managed to make me feel guilty about stealing time away from "noble" (and urgent!) pursuits such as the academic job search and the publishing thing. I do require some tough love once in a while, so thank you professor! However, after reading all the informative posts I decided "the heck with the publishing", that endowed chair position at Harvard can wait a day or two after all. So, just a few points:

1) “European superiority-itis”

Sayulita, you certainly managed to explain my position much more successfully than I was able to. I am humbled about the compliment on my command of English; but let me assure you that when I witness the linguistic acrobatics of many of my fellow American and/or British academics, I am always reminded of my non-native English speaker limitations. Yes, I still have an accent, but it is not heavy, just recognizable. As long as it doesn’t bother my American students, I am OK with it just the way it is. J
CaseyB, I’d rather not mention the country itself just yet, due to some confidentiality concerns I have at the moment; but let’s say it is a country that COULD be characterized as “bleak and corrupt”, to use Sayulita’s terms. And yet, when it comes to “hipster” places - based on professorsenator’s definition - this country has them out the yin-yang. I never thought of them as “hipster” though. For a long time I thought most humans live more or less like this - whether city, town or village. J

That being said, I don’t think professorsenator's post was ill-meant, but I could see he was irritated. The reality is we live in a hypersensitive society where claims of superiority of ANYTHING relative to ANYTHING are automatically regarded with suspicion and grudge. It was never my intention to suggest that Europe is an absolute Nirvana whereas other places are "human and cultural wastelands". This latter term, especially, caused me some real discomfort as I felt words were put in my mouth. I have lived on both the European and the North American continents for long enough to understand what each boils down to, ultimately. As Sayulita said, they both have pluses and minuses. Both boast aspects that are ...YES, SUPERIOR to their counterparts on the other continent.

In terms of human settlements, I stick to my guns that the European model doesn't suck. I just wonder, if the typical European settlement (walkable, dense, self-contained, stores on ground floor mixed with some residential units above, central squares, cafes on sidewalks, people in the streets, a minimum degree of "pretty" to buildings, at least SOME cultural opportunities, more or less of a pulse, etc) is indeed NOT superior to other types of lifestyle elsewhere, then why is it that all places in the US that are close to this description are referred to as “hipster” and are expensive beyond belief? Why is it that something most Europeans take for granted even in provincial parts of the country, comes with a very high price tag in the US and is usually reserved to "the chosen ones"?

And if the planned, sprawled suburbs are equally great and not at all dreary, why is it that it costs so much less to live in a McMansion in such an area (not really the case in the Northeast, but still) than in a modest dwelling in an area with an old-world, "European-ish" feel? The free market sometimes really speaks louder than words. Could it be that this type of settlement is indeed "SUPERIOR"? There are mountains of volumes written on the unhealthy effects of suburban sprawl and/or rural isolation (usually in the American form) on just about anything from individual and community health, to life satisfaction, to the environment, etc.

If many people live in such planned and sprawled developments is not because they are unworthy of their fellow humans' respect; it’s simply because they were priced out of those indeed superior areas. So it is the modern suburban development system that I am not a fan of, not the people themselves who are forced to live in such areas simply because they cannot afford a so-called “hipster” place.
So I found the term “human wasteland” a bit unfair.

2) The rest.

DowntownVentura, yes we will certainly rent at first; at the same time we do not want to wait forever until interest rates go up again and we are priced out of any decent school district for all eternity. Economics are not my field but I do understand one economic principle/definition: “the economy is the social institution that operates in such ways that our family never catches a break”.

Ogre, thank you a million for the wealth of information and the time you took to write it! Re: the housing style in the Northeast and its understated tones compared to the opulent South: I certainly think that being discreet about one’s social standing is a virtue. However, I will be honest with you and will say that I have seen many houses in the area that seem downright UNHEALTHY from the picture. Not modest but unhealthy. The cubic rooms with extremely low ceilings and tiny little prison-like windows, where you can barely get a sunray in - that can cause depression in some people!! For whatever reason, those kind of places get me down. I grew up in a communist condo, the kind that some people received for free from the state if they had one too many kids J ; and I have to say those had much larger, taller and elegant windows than what I have seen with many houses in the Boston area.
When we were browsing the Boston real estate on the net, all I could think of was “I know Boston must be a GREAT place to live, but are such windows REALLY necessary? I mean, where does modesty end and pettiness begins?”
But I suppose I will find out what Puritanism REALLY means when I get there. So far, I knew about it mainly from books. J

Condo is fine but I doubt there are many condos with 4 bedrooms or 3 bedrooms + some bonus/basement/extra room. With 2 kids and a need to work from home a lot (something to resemble an office), the condo route might not work.

The way you describe the “Boston cliques” and their absolute certainty that there’s no place like Boston, reminds me of Italians. I have extended family in Italy and every time I am there and suggest that some of them consider another place for a job, they look at me as if I have gone completely nuts. Who would EVER want to leave Italy? Who would ever want to leave THEIR TOWN?? But I find this attitude kind of charming and cute, not at all obnoxious. I love the sense of roots and belonging, and frankly, I am a bit jealous of those who were not forced by life to uproot, pack up and go. Again and again.

Concepts, you are definitely right. And you are not a joykill, the Internet killed it before you. Under 400,000 I do not have much hope. I will have to somehow find a job in academia because on my husband’s salary only, it’s going to be tough. Speaking of which, to answer charolastra00’s question: “Would it be possible for you to move into the nonprofit or business world?”. The answer would be “yes, it would be possible, but no, I will not do it”.
I have been there, hated my life, the only kind of job I can hold down is an academic type, be it teaching adjunct. I had a fine academic job here, I was super OK with it, husbands drags me out of it, so the office, 8-5, punch the clock kind of job won’t happen again, not even in Boston. He was informed about it and he agreed. I suppose I would do it if it came to starvation ...but else, I am ready to be a SAHM, deal with those tiny windows and get on Prozac.

Charolastra00, my kids are not school-age yet, my son is in preschool now (he is almost 4) and my daughter is 15 mo. So I have not yet experienced Georgia’s schools. I am aware of the national rankings and the disaster they spell for Georgia public education, but we were planning on getting into one of those “as good as it gets” districts in GA and hope for the best.

Would it be too much if I asked you what HS you graduated from?

I know Walton HS in Marietta is ranked about 100th in the nation, so this is certainly a major outlier for GA. It’s a “good ol’ nest” of something…but I also know that school culture often means a lot more than rankings based on standardized scores. And in GA, all school districts considered “very good” are typically districts with opulent housing, and a "study-so-you- can-make-money" atmosphere, suggesting exactly the type of culture and lifestyle that the Puritan, understated (and yes, overall better educated) Northeast might secretly despise. J

That being said, I still think those large Paladian windows in GA rock! J

Thank you so much again for all opinions and all the information!