About to fall in love, but... (Boston, Newton: real estate, rentals, houses)

[syracusa]

Now that I have finally set foot in Boston and the surrounding areas, I just wanted to drop a note and thank again all posters who helped us out in the few threads I started over the past couple of months. I also wanted to quickly share a few of those strong "first impressions" - coming from someone who had never been to the NE before, yet who had heard and read so much about it.

First impression of Boston was a definite "Bingo"!.
I absolutely LOVE the overall feel of the city and its surrounding areas. Of course, I knew that after 11 years of grudging living in Atlanta, I would.

I love the crispy, cool air like nothing else. I love the quiet little squares where the young, the middle-age with kids and old people actually walk together! Waow! What a concept! I love the adorable architecture, be it in need of renovation and I love the "British-ness" oozing from many streets . While I am not British myself I spent one of my most beautiful years in England and I can't help the positive associations. I love all those meandering streets and how you cannot find your way around easily if you're new in town (this is how my hometown is ). Won't even mention the leaf colors that seem to be unparalleled and that everyone knows about.

And yes, I love the overall feel of Newton so much ... and if you start with the "champaign taste on a beer budget" song again, I won't care. . We will most probably NOT end up in Newton anyway but that doesn't prevent me from loving this downright beautiful area. I am not saying this because it is "wealthy" as many imperial-looking residential neighborhoods in Atlanta would make Newton look like a town of paupers. I like it because it has traditional, quaint architecture and a great community feel. I can only wish people who can afford to live there to enjoy it because it really feels like an "ideal" kind of place.

But what I loved most so far about Boston is the urban "sanity". The happy medium "sanity" that is so evident when looking at two extremes that I find equally torturous: the overwhelming, disconnected feel of New York and the depressing, sterile feel of Atlanta.

Boston is neither and for this I proclaim it THE SANE place of America.

I smiled when I thought back over the discussions on these boards and the reprimand I received when complaining about "dreary American suburbs". This coupled with how board members were describing places like Arlington as "suburban" and Belmont as a "quiet, bedroom community".

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

Now that I saw these places for myself and I compared them to what
people in Atlanta call "urban", suburban" and "rural" feel - I realized the frame of reference is shockingly different.

Let's clarify this: for someone used to the TRUE dreariness of Atlanta/Georgia suburbs, Belmont is a "Paris-lively" place!!
Please don't be so harsh with someone complaining about the dreariness of Atlanta suburban sprawl until you are faced with moving to a place like Cumming, GA and fear that God Himself will not be able to find you in those boonies if He wanted to.

Based on the criteria I have seen on the MA boards, just take my word for it that the entire Atlanta area is a big "modern-rural" creation, except a tiny area downtown which feels more like cold corporate territory and a place for "weirdo" residents than anything else.

Finally, ever since we arrived I've been keeping a systematic and conscious eye for "Mass****s" . I saw basically nothing. I even saw people smiling at me in the street (WAOW!!), and only met courteous drivers who were stoically putting up with my husband's phone-GPS adventures. For anyone who believes that driving in Boston is "terrible", I wish you could begin to understand how decent this kind of driving looks like to someone born and raised in a city where driving literally means "survival of the fittest" and "trying to stay alive". As for Atlanta, I'd always found the drivers to be beyond courteous, could not ask for more in that respect.

To be fair though, I think I did spot one (a "Mass***e) - a real estate agent who must have been some sort of an "archetype". She had a terribly devious, condescending stare (definitely never saw that in Atlanta), and when I asked her about any cleaning/improvements that might be done to the property before tenant moves in, she snapped "place is ready for move in AS IS!" and looked at me as if I had been Marie-Antoinette herself in dire need of decapitation.

Now, if only we had enough money to avoid the real estate pains of Boston, this place would probably be close to Heaven on Earth.

[professorsenator]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Now, if only we had enough money to avoid the real estate pains of Boston, this place would probably be close to Heaven on Earth.

Glad to know you were impressed, syracusa. I love Massachusetts and New England. I live in the 'burbs (as I'm sure you've guessed by now) and am happy to learn that you now realize that the burbs of Boston -- or at least many of them -- aren't bad at all. And the "traditional, quaint architecture and a great community feel" that you referenced can be found in MANY of the Boston suburbs -- Newton has no monopoly on that by any means. And that same feel can found in parts of the city, too, of course.

As for affording a place to buy: my advice is to buy location. Buy the best house you can afford in the best location -- sacrifice size and condition for location. Get a modest place in Newton (if that's your ideal location) that you can afford. The place will almost certainly be a dump. But live in it and fix it up over time (and to save $$$ learn to do as much as you can yourself--make minor home improvement projects your new hobby, and this is a way to personalize your house so it is not some developer-like cookie cutter). And when the market turns around and (hopefully) your finances are a little better, move up to a little bigger/better house. This is how many people entering the housing market here on limited budgets do it. Housing here is SO much more about location versus size/condition.

"Heaven on earth?" No, that's stretching it a bit. But, yes, this is great place to live -- come on up and enjoy it!

[Beachcomber4]

Thank you for sharing your first impressions. I am glad you were able to see for yourself what everyone was trying to communicate to you.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by professorsenator

Glad to know you were impressed, syracusa. I love Massachusetts and New England. I live in the 'burbs (as I'm sure you've guessed by now) and am happy to learn that you now realize that the burbs of Boston -- or at least many of them -- aren't bad at all.

With THIS kind of compact "burbs", that are more like quaint and relatively lively small towns, and their quick and easy access to a great city, I myself would be perfectly happy living in the 'burbs, which is where we will most likely end up anyway. We went downtown Boston, it's lovely but we really don't need to LIVE right in the middle of IT ALL. We consider it a luxury that we would have easy access to such places.

I am still paranoid about schools though. What is an well-meaning but unassuming parent to make of all sorts of conflicting, even scary information coming from all directions? I will confess I recently received in my private mail box a very negative message about Boston - from a person who is a self-described first generation immigrant, like myself, apparently from the same region of the world as I am (though not from the same country). Among other details having to do with her overall dissatisfaction with Boston, she said she lives in one of the best school districts in MA and yet the education is "mediocre", teachers do only the minimum required by the state, etc.

At the same time, I have read reviews about schools in places like Lexington and Newton (national hot-beds of education, after all) , where the atmosphere is described as "mean, competitive, cut-throat, bully-infested" etc.

Geeez. In this case, I don't blame those people who take their kids out of public schools, be they stellar, to place them in more sheltered, community-oriented private school environments. I would do it in a heartbeat if we had the money.

At this point, Melrose is top of our list but nothing DELEADED to rent there in our price range. Wakefield is so tempting but I am yet to be convinced about the schools.

Overall, Boston is certainly a challenge when it comes to the real estate, especially for those with smaller children.

[ThinkingThinking]

I knew you'd like it

[professorsenator]

Originally Posted by syracusa

...Among other details having to do with her overall dissatisfaction with Boston, she said she lives in one of the best school districts in MA and yet the education is "mediocre"....

Mass. has one of the best -- if not THE best -- state public education systems in the U.S. If she is unhappy with the public schools in a top town/district in Mass. then there is probably no public school anywhere that would make her happy.

I would not be surprised if the atmosphere at the some of the very highest rated high schools is competitive -- that is effectively what it is like at the most competitive universities so it's logical to expect that this might trickle down to the high school level. Avoid this tough and inhospitable environment by going for schools that are just one notch below the highest prestige locales -- i.e. go for places that have excellent schools (still in the top 10 or 20% of Mass. schools) but aren't hyper-competitive in order to be in the very top slot.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by professorsenator

Avoid this tough and inhospitable environment by going for schools that are just one notch below the highest prestige locales -- i.e. go for places that have excellent schools (still in the top 10 or 20% of Mass. schools) but aren't hyper-competitive in order to be in the very top slot.

Would you mind helping me with a link to any resource that gives such classifications (such as top 20% Mass schools?). Someone offered something similar before but I believe I misplaced that information. Thanks so much!

[brightdoglover]

So glad the OP liked it here!
I've never been to Atlanta (and wouldn't- I find Boston too humid...) but when I've seen videos of the area, it does seem very sprawled, and the supposedly wealthy houses look more like undersized office buildings, not homes. There's very little of that here- likely no land to do it, but whatever works.
I agree that a lot of Boston/around Boston is very town-like, very little sprawl, actually, none near the city. I'm sure the OP can find plenty of places to be happy with for a new N.E. life.
Remember that Boston proper is actually quite small. In a lot of cities, the adjoining areas have been annexed, and are considered part of the city. Around Boston, they haven't been annexed, and are very close to the city and have an urban town feeling, but are separate towns, like Brookling, Medford, Arlington, etc. It only increases the sense of "town" for me, while "city" with all its features is actually rather close.
I forget that not all cities are East Coast types!
Best wishes.

[CaseyB]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Would you mind helping me with a link to any resource that gives such classifications (such as top 20% Mass schools?). Someone offered something similar before but I believe I misplaced that information. Thanks so much!

You can start with this: http://www.city-data.com/schools-dirs/schools-MA.html. It is alphabetical by school name, not town.

[Valerie C]

syracusa, I've been following your threads with a fair amount of interest, but have refrained from joining because I never felt I could offer something of value to the conversation. Though I quite often visit the areas you're considering, my knowledge of the schools and the local culture are limited to an outsider's view... So glad to hear that you like what you've seen, thus far.

Originally Posted by syracusa

To be fair though, I think I did spot one (a "Mass***e) - a real estate agent who must have been some sort of an "archetype". She had a terribly devious, condescending stare (definitely never saw that in Atlanta), and when I asked her about any cleaning/improvements that might be done to the property before tenant moves in, she snapped "place is ready for move in AS IS!" and looked at me as if I had been Marie-Antoinette herself in dire need of decapitation.

I had to laugh on your description of this particular Mass***e. I've seen that look before, and unfortunately, many real estate agents have this same attitude. You'd think that, being "used-house salespeople" that more of us would be as upbeat as possible, but it sounds like you were (un)lucky to meet up with the stereotypical 'power agent' who is MUCH too busy to bother with being polite and helpful.... We're not all like that, and I might suggest that you call an agency and ask for the newest agent on the block. This person will be HAPPY to show you to as many rentals as you want to see. There are times when experience really counts, but you are looking for a rental, and hopefully you'll be loyal to this agent (once he or she has some miles under their feet) when you are ready to buy...

Originally Posted by syracusa

Would you mind helping me with a link to any resource that gives such classifications (such as top 20% Mass schools?). Someone offered something similar before but I believe I misplaced that information. Thanks so much!

The boston.com website has a wealth of information. While MCAS scores aren't the only indicator of good schools, it's no surprise that the top scoring towns are also highly valued as having desirable school systems. Take a look:

2008 MCAS Results - The Boston Globe - Boston.com

2007 MCAS Results - The Boston Globe - Boston.com

Oh, and welcome to the Boston area