To the mixed couples/families in MA (Boston, Springfield: apartment, how much)
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Have you had any extremely negative experiences pertaining to race/ being a mixed couple? If so, what were the experiences and how do/did you deal with them?
Where do you live (city)? Is your neighborhood predominantly one ethnicity?
How are your kids viewed and treated by other people?
On the flip side- Does anyone have a positive experience as a mixed couple/ family in MA? By this I mean, maybe you live somewhere where people think it's great to be multicultural?
I've lived most of my life in either NYC, MA or RI. In MA, I've lived in Concord, Cambridge and Newton. And I've visited most parts of MA. I'm Chinese, my stepdad is white and all my sisters and I have only dated white men. One sister married a white New Zealander. Never once have my mom, my sisters or I experienced any negativity in our choice of male companionship.
And our pattern of interracial dating and marriage has not been applauded by others, but rather no one has ever thought it unusual or a big deal. And I feel that's the way it should be. Personally, people should be able to date anyone they find attractive and compatible with personality wise. And same race or same culture relationships are just as important as interracial or intercultural ones. I think that it would be very sad and tragic if all races and cultures one day became one homogeneous group. The US (and the world) having so many diverse races and cultures is a good thing imo.
Otherwise, quite honestly the only groups of people ever being disgruntled about interracial relationships seem to me to be Asian men and black women. Many are the times, I hear them complaining about their potential same race mates (attractive Asian women/successful black men) being "stolen" by those of other races.
Although I'm the child of two Caucasians, I can still lend some insights b/c White folks have the tendency to let their guard down when only others like them are around. (They soon find out with me that that's not a wise thing to do. ) I think every social/cultural group does the same thing, to be fair. Now that being PC is the way to go for just about everybody, people are a lot less brutally frank than was the case not too long ago - but also, tolerance if not true acceptance has grown by leaps and bounds. Though few get bent out of shape by seeing "mixed" couples or families, there are still times when somebody will lead into a joke by looking around and saying, "There aren't any Black/Jewish/gay/etc people here, are there?" That's about as bad as it gets, though, and more often than not the jokes really aren't offensive.
The worst incident I've witnessed was right in my own "progressive" Cambridge neighborhood. An EA man and AA woman, in their 20's and clearly a couple, were waiting on a red light in their open jeep when they were spotted by four AA men who were walking past on the sidewalk. At first the comments were innocuous and even funny: "Hey, beautiful sista!" "Is he good to you? Does he buy you thangs?" Then the foul remarks started, concerning White guys' needing to stay away from "our women" and the young lady's apparent inability to enjoy the superior anatomy and "skills" of Black men. Stoically, the couple endured the taunts until the light changed, whereupon their verbal assailants continued on their way as well.
There are interracial as well as same-sex couples in my main social circles, and nobody bats an eye in public. But an oft-heard assumption is that we're co-workers. In other words, we were thrown together by an employer and are cordially hanging out instead of being full-fledged friends (much less married, in some cases.) Folks mean no harm by asking whether we're all from the same office or what we do for a living. At the same time I think it betrays their own social limitations and prejudices. Worth noting is that ONLY White people have ever voiced these assumptions.
One form of mixed couple in particular has gotten to be so common around my way that the slang term "Wigwag" (WGWAG - White Guy With Asian Girl) has been coined. Like all terms of this kind, whether or not it's pejorative depends on how it's being said.
Longtime friends - AA husband, Jewish wife - own a duplex near the Somerville/Cambridge line in a somewhat diverse neighborhood. In 2001 the wife hosted a huge surprise birthday party for her spouse, one of those bashes where you don't even get to say hello to half the guests. Two of the people I did get to meet were the WGWAG (Jewish husband, Japanese wife) who were my friends' tenants at the time. We easily fell into conversation, helped in part by the fact that I lived in Japan for several years. Talk turned to how they'd wound up in that house, having relocated from another city. They told of "not knowing what to expect" in their apartment quest (we all knew what that meant) and "KNOWING we'd found a home as soon as Lois and Al opened the door" (we all knew what that meant, too.)
No more rambling after this paragraph. Late in 2003, an EA woman and AA man I go way back with - who'll marry "when we get around to it" - decided to dwell under the same roof. It took them months to find a place despite its being a buyer's market. They went as far as making an offer on no less than six houses only to then be told, "It just went under agreement for somebody else." Right. At long last they were able to purchase a wonderful home in the distant town of Chelmsford, passing papers on 2/29/04. I held my breath when I heard the news: Chelmsford's population had exploded in the 1960's and '70s due to White flight from neighboring Lowell as well as from Boston, Cambridge, etc. How would folks there react to seeing a towering Black ex-football-player on their block? Well...the first neighbor to react was the guy next door, who made his move when he saw Rick unloading fishing gear. He hustled over with his right hand extended to say that he knew "all the good spots; you're coming along on my next trip." The kids across the street jumped for joy to have new playmates (Rick's three children by another woman.) Seemingly before the "SOLD" sign was gone from the front yard, the men were fishing, the ladies were trading recipes and gossip, and the young-un's were making mischief. Just another new family in town being welcomed.
Overall I believe it's safe to say that American society has progressed from "don't even think about eating/shopping/living there" to "you won't know until you try." A mixed couple can be harassed in a liberal city yet embraced in a conservative suburb. And the need to stay connected with one's own kind will probably always be there no matter how readily accepted one may be. There's still a long way to go.
I've been to Cape Cod and Boston and didn't have a problem while I was there. It's not uncommon to see interracial couple in MA, especially the further East you go. It does seem like places like Cambridge, Somerville, Malden, Everett, Medford and other northern/eastern suburbs of Boston tend to have more IR present.
Otherwise, quite honestly the only groups of people ever being disgruntled about interracial relationships seem to me to be Asian men and black women. Many are the times, I hear them complaining about their potential same race mates (attractive Asian women/successful black men) being "stolen" by those of other races.
I'm a young black woman. Trust me when I state that many black women are not sitting at home, angry about black men dating interracially. The census will in fact show that more and more black women are expanding their options and marrying non black men.
In all honesty, I've only dated one black guy. The majority of my long term relationships have been with white men.
I'm a young black woman. Trust me when I state that many black women are not sitting at home, angry about black men dating interracially. The census will in fact show that more and more black women are expanding their options and marrying non black men.
In all honesty, I've only dated one black guy. The majority of my long term relationships have been with white men.
Why do white people seem to be unpleasantly alarmed to see the mixture of a black/brown man with an Asian female. I note the fact that no one has the right to harrass grown adults who have the right to be with whomever they please. It sometimes seems that whitemen aren't so much feeling protective and possessive of white women, but of any women who are now dating them in any considerable volume. There is a huge power complex going on out there with white men. They put to much pressure on themselves as the guardians of civilization with that old premiss of the "white man's burden". Very arrogant imo. The world could actually go to Mars without white men you know. Not to knock the achievements many white men have gifted on to the world. If so many white men for some reason (liberal angle different from the conservative one, but both equally damaging) think their burden is biblical in a crusaders type sense and practical in the racial heirarchy type sense, why didn't they just let Hitler finish the job? (oh yeah, Hitler hated non-blond, non blue-eyed, Jewish, gay, Catholic and slavic white people as well). To bad the Americans and British thought utilizing these undesirables for profitable gain screwed things up for Hitler as well. So you see, if it weren't for the internal struggles of the white people back then, Hitler would have succeeded. Same principal with the North needing the slaves for the industrial revolution and thus the result caused the Civil War and the end of slavery.
To wrap this all up. Is our system of utter gargantuan hypocrisy what we really want to follow into the future. We need to evolve together. If some poor Mexicans get shafted during it then that's the price we must pay and make damn sure this crap never happens again. All hail the "Steady State Economy". 310 million Americans + environment = we don't need more Americans right now please.
Location: from houstoner to bostoner to new yorker;)
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It depends on the 'mix.' White and Asian couples are fairly common and accepted most everywhere I've been, but a black and white couple may have a harder go of it. It depends on the mix and other factors. People aren't as friendly and outgoing as other places I've lived, so the burden is on you to extend the olive branch. That is to say, how you're received will depend a lot on how you come across. But honestly I don't know how much of that is the infamous New England reserve and how much is the subtle racism you find everywhere. Just know that if you're a white guy with a black woman or vice versa, no one's going to burn a cross on your lawn, but you may not receive a dinner invitation so readily either. Once they do get to know you, however, it's worth it. Friendship here means something to people. I've found New Englanders more loyal and true once they move you onto their 'approved' list. They will go out of their way to help you. If you have kids in school, that makes meeting people easier. And keep in mind that some towns are more welcoming than others.
I've also noticed lots of transracial friendships between kids and teens here, which is encouraging. You will also see lots of people who look biracial, but are really Cape Verdean, Dominican, etc.
Last edited by neotextist; 05-02-2010 at 06:09 AM..
Why do white people seem to be unpleasantly alarmed to see the mixture of a black/brown man with an Asian female.
Wow. Where do you see this happening? I have never ever seen it, and I'm 51 years old and well traveled in the US. If anything, it's the Asian woman's own family with their traditional values from their home country that have strident objections to their children mixing with black people. Most Asian cultures are very nationalistic about their heritage and would prefer their bloodlines remain purely Asian. Most Asian cultures consider anyone with darker toned skin to be low class, that their dark skin is due to being in the sun as a manual laborer. So their first choice is that their children marry within their own race and culture. And the second choice is marrying an educated professional white person. Their daughters marrying poor or blue collar white men is also not a happy scenario for them.
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I note the fact that no one has the right to harrass grown adults who have the right to be with whomever they please. It sometimes seems that whitemen aren't so much feeling protective and possessive of white women, but of any women who are now dating them in any considerable volume. There is a huge power complex going on out there with white men. They put to much pressure on themselves as the guardians of civilization with that old premiss of the "white man's burden". Very arrogant imo. The world could actually go to Mars without white men you know. Not to knock the achievements many white men have gifted on to the world.
As to this statement, my take on it is that some "white men", due to their European culture, have a code of behaviour that I would call being "gentlemanly" and protective of all "ladies" that goes back for many centuries of having a very formal social etiquette. Think King Arthur's court and his knights protecting the fair and pure maidens. And to court aka date one of these maidens, one would first ask the approval of her parents. And when on these "dates", the couple would never be left alone. There would always be chaperones discretely watching them at a distance. And in this way, the lady's reputation would never be sullied, as she was expected to be a virgin until her marriage day. And before the wedding proposal, the man would be expected to ask her father's permission first.
The French would fight duels over a woman's honour.
Even the 50 year old Portuguese chef at my job told the rest of us how when he was young, still living in Portugal, and courting his future wife, they could never be alone on their dates. Another family member was always with them.
And 30 years ago, one of my co-workers was living in the North End. Her landlord told her that she couldn't have boyfriends over. One morning, he saw her ex boyfriend (who only stayed on her sofa) leaving her apartment, and she was told to leave and find another place to live. And she did.
And being gentlemanly is also holding a door open for women, and a man giving up his seat on a train or bus for a woman or elderly person.
Anyway, back to what you said about white men being protective about all women, and being "alarmed at seeing black/brown men dating Asian women". And I don't know the details of what you have witnessed, but from my own observations at clubs and bars is that if a man is being too pushy about trying to get to know a woman in those places, other guys usually will step in to get the obnoxious guy to back off. And I feel that young men from Latino and black cultures tend to court women in a more pushy and agressive manner than those from whiter European cultures. Of course, if any man of any race is drunk and trying to pick up a woman in a club or bar setting, he's going to come off as obnoxious. Then add in that many Asian women are very polite and demure in manner, and most men will want to be protective of them if they seem them being harassed in any way.
Lastly, there might be some general disaproval over any relationship situation where a woman has a child or children with a man of any race, and he refuses to marry her and/or she is on welfare because of the situation and/or that man has several baby mommas. There is also a problem in the black community with having a lot of single parent families with absentee fathers. And it seems to me and many others that the baby momma phenomenon is more connected to black men and much rarer with white or Asian men. Or maybe that blacks are more open and accepting about baby mommas, and whites and Asians consider it shameful and keep the situation hidden. With whites and Asians, a young person having an unplanned out of wedlock pregnancy usually results in a shotgun marriage, adopting out the baby or abortion.
Otherwise, if a black or brown man is dating or married to an Asian woman, and they seem very happy with each other, I honestly can't imagine any white man objecting to their romantic relationship.
As to the world going to Mars without the help of white people... well I don't know where you came up with that opinion because the best space travel program is in the US, and it's a predominantly white organization. According to WikiAnswers.com, there have been about 500 US astronauts so far and only 15 of them have been black. The Russian space program is number two and they are all white. There are no space travel programs in the entire continent of Africa. But you take all the white people out of the world's space programs and only allow black and brown people in, and you're not going to get to Mars anytime soon. And if you are counting Asians as brown people (but I don't think that you are), well I wouldn't trust any spaceship made in China. No way would I consider riding in a Chinese or Korean rocket. Maybe a Japanese built one though.
We're a long term black-white interracial couple in Massachusetts. We were married in Cambridge in the post 'Loving v. Commonwealth of Virginia' era, and have lived in various parts of Mass., several US states, many foreign countries, and are now retired senior citizens in western Mass.
In my experience, Cambridge has always been the best/safest place in Mass. to be a mixed couple... by a mile - more specifically Harvard and Central Squares, or the area from Porter Square to the MIT bridge and extending out to the suburbs, especially north and west, Middlesex and Essex counties, and some of the south shore towns with a few exceptions.
Next, include parts of the Cape and Martha's Vineyard, which has had a black middle class for generations and also has Brazilians of every hue.
Amherst is mixed race family central and 15 years ago I know they had a multi-racial family group with over 100 families (we were in it). You're more likely to be judged on education, income or what department you teach in, rather than race. Most of the Hampshire County towns around Amherst are basically okay - like Leverett, Pelham and Shutesbury, maybe Belchertown and Hadley - with the exception of Hat(e)field.
Springfield is a city, and fairly poor, but multi-ethnic. Being a mixed race couple would not be the problem there.
Franklin County is a whole other world. The western towns of Franklin County are reasonably civilized, like Ashfield, Buckland and Shelburne Falls, and the people would generally be used to seeing and interacting with other races. The eastern part of Franklin County - specifically Greenfield, Orange, New Salem, Athol - are socially backward, ignorant and willfully ignorant about different cultures, hostile, and racist.
We've lived and traveled in the rural south and generally been treated with civility and respect. We've been all around Mississippi as a mixed race couple and found modern day Mississippians to be warm, gracious to us, and accepting.
In Greenfield and Franklin County we've been treated with contempt, suspicion and hostility; gossiped about, slandered, stalked, have had shots fired at us, been called the N-word, and literally spat upon by a neighbor who said it was a good neighborhood until we moved in. I don't like to paint every individual with the same broad brush but I try to be real. Greenfield, Orange, New Salem...these are racist towns with a lot of redneck bigots and deeply ingrained racist attitudes and stereotypes.
Last edited by teachertype; 05-03-2010 at 05:08 AM..
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) I think every social/cultural group does the same thing, to be fair. Now that being PC is the way to go for just about everybody, people are a lot less brutally frank than was the case not too long ago - but also, tolerance if not true acceptance has grown by leaps and bounds. Though few get bent out of shape by seeing "mixed" couples or families, there are still times when somebody will lead into a joke by looking around and saying, "There aren't any Black/Jewish/gay/etc people here, are there?" That's about as bad as it gets, though, and more often than not the jokes really aren't offensive.
Late in 2003, an EA woman and AA man I go way back with - who'll marry "when we get around to it" - decided to dwell under the same roof. It took them months to find a place despite its being a buyer's market. They went as far as making an offer on no less than six houses only to then be told, "It just went under agreement for somebody else." Right. At long last they were able to purchase a wonderful home in the distant town of Chelmsford, passing papers on 2/29/04. I held my breath when I heard the news: Chelmsford's population had exploded in the 1960's and '70s due to White flight from neighboring Lowell as well as from Boston, Cambridge, etc. How would folks there react to seeing a towering Black ex-football-player on their block? Well...the first neighbor to react was the guy next door, who made his move when he saw Rick unloading fishing gear. He hustled over with his right hand extended to say that he knew "all the good spots; you're coming along on my next trip." The kids across the street jumped for joy to have new playmates (Rick's three children by another woman.) Seemingly before the "SOLD" sign was gone from the front yard, the men were fishing, the ladies were trading recipes and gossip, and the young-un's were making mischief. Just another new family in town being welcomed. 
